Being one of the few remaining players that started the game, I feel it appropriate to get into the details a little deeper than we have heard from the replacement players. Wolf, if you have the email addresses of the players who came and went though out the game, feel free to forward this to them. Maybe some of them will find it of interest.

I have been playing Diplomacy by email for several years now. Originally on CAT23, but I think that site is just about gone. I mention this, because my record on DiplomaticCorp does not give you a fair picture of my experience. I have played every country at least once and soloed with both Germany and Turkey. My last attempt with Austria failed miserably and I was eliminated by Italy, Russia and Turkey by the end of 1902 (yes, all three. Not too sure how I offended them all . . . but somehow I did). So, I watched closely during the games that followed to see how other “Austria’sâ€Â� played things. In doing so, I realized that if Italy and/or Austria worked with Turkey, the Sultan invariably stabbed and almost always eliminated both of them. This was my immediate concern at the beginning of the game.

So I set out to get an alliance with Italy. Knowing that to take Turkey with Italian support, Italy would want Greece (that was what I wanted when I played Italy). So, I promised to turn Greece over to Italy, provided that he did not occupy Greece with an Army. Which Italy seemingly was more than happy to agree to . . . and off we went into 1902 . . . when Italy put an Army into Armenia! Our alliance almost failed right there.

After confronting Italy with his broken agreement, Italy professed that he had forgotten that he had agreed to such. Exactly how having an Italian Army in Armenia could do anything except attack me could not be explained to my satisfaction. However, at this point, I had already attacked Turkey. To back out of the alliance with Italy would mean a two front war for me. Therefore, the only real option was to get Italy back with me, against Turkey. So, we agreed that Italy would remove the army in Armenia (Greece, shortly thereafter) at his earliest opportunity . . . a little vague, I know . . . but I needed Italy at this point. However, I made sure that Italy knew he would have to take Greece by force. This did two things for me; made Italy choose between Greece and Trieste and allow me to retreat from Greece to the Sea zone most advantageous for me after seeing what moves the Sultan used and the choice Italy made. I am grateful that Italy chose to stay with me and occupied Greece.

This moves us into 1903, when I put egg on my face and inadvertently used the abbreviation ‘ven’ for Vienna. I intended to show good faith by moving my army from Trieste to Vienna . . . not Venice. Please, before you say that was a stupid mistake . . . sound it out for yourself. The first syllable for both Vienna and Venice is very similar. I eventually went to spelling everything out right instead of using abbreviations. Of course, this incident almost put an end to the Austrian/Italian alliance at this point.

In the end, however, the action did seem to be fateful as Italy took the opportunity to retreat from attacking Turkey to attack France instead. I am sure that had Italy not turned at that key point in the game, France would have been able to capitalize on his gains in England and begin his attack on Italy in full force. As it was, Italy was able to catch France while he was still totally focused on England.

It was also at this point that I turned and started to attack Germany. This might have seemed to be ill fated . . . start a two front war . . . intentionally? I did it for two reasons; first, France and Germany were working well together. It was obvious that Germany and France would eliminate England and Russia before we were able to eliminate Turkey. Therefore, Austria and Italy would likely have Germany and France at our backdoors before we were ready. Second, I had Turkey bottled up in his home centers. I could not advance against Turkey without Italian help . . . but then again, Turkey could not break out either. And, I could maintain this stalemate with a minimal amount of units. So, it seemed prudent to keep Turkey boxed in and deal with the bigger threat of France and Germany.

I played cat and mouse with Germany over the next several seasons . . . sometimes making gains . . . sometimes being set back . . . either way really served my purpose, because while Germany was completely tied up with dealing with me, he was not making gains against Russia. My attack also served another purpose that I had not realized until the battle was joined. In order to hold off my attacks . . . Germany had to keep units in his home supply centers. Therefore, even if Germany made gains elsewhere, he had no open supply centers to build in. Turkey’s NMR came at the same time that Russia decided to give me some assistance in exchange for a supply center or two in return. Which was probably a mistake since once Turkey was gone it only made sense for me to attack Russia. A smarter play would have been to give Turkey some assistance against me . . . but, Turkey had already alienated Russia by taking Russian supply centers.

The next test of the Austrian/Italian alliance came in 1907. Italy and Austria both had made great gains against France and Turkey respectively. And, the newest Russian Tsar was proving to be more . . . capable, than the two previous ones. It was obvious I was not going to make any more gains until Italy deemed it polite to give me some assistance against Germany . . . whom I had been holding at bay while patiently waiting for Italy to finish off France. It was at this point that Italy decided we needed to talk about how to split the remaining resources so that neither Italy nor Austria was going to be able to obtain the Solo Victory.

REALLY?!? . . . with us each holding only 10 supplies . . . we talk about the end game? I had been very patient in my cat and mouse game with Germany, knowing that I would be getting nowhere until Italy was able to give me some assistance. And, now we have to talk about the end game? The terms that he gave left him ample opportunity for the solo and me on the wrong side of the Stalemate line. To tell the truth . . . I agreed to them so that Italy would be willing to help me against Germany. But, this was the first point that I began to suspect that Italy wanted the solo.

The next couple of game years went by with Austria and Italy moving well against our respective adversaries. It was the spring of 1910, when I decided to be certain of how things were going to end. I put out a request for an Austrian/Italian Draw Proposal. My thinking was this; the game is at a point where England and Russia should support any draw just so that they can claim survival points instead of being eliminated. Germany was between Austria and Italy, and would obviously be pummeled until the end . . . therefore, he should also support the draw in order to claim survival points instead of being eliminated. The only people who had any interest in the game continuing were Austria and Italy. I voted for the Draw, hoping it would end there. But, on the odd chance that Italy voted against the draw in the interest of going for the solo, I also occupied Greece and attacked Venice. Come to find out . . . Italy had forgotten to vote on the proposal all together.

Not much to tell after that . . . I immediately tried to get England and Russia to side with me. Unfortunately . . . neither one of them trusted me . . . despite my doing everything they requested, from the Fall of 1910 forward. I also recognized that I needed a new fleet if I had any hope of making gains against Italy. Unfortunately, Italy saw that also and supported one side of my self-standoff into Trieste so that I couldn’t build the fleet (congrats again on that Tim). Like Tim said . . . if I was really interested in getting the solo, I probably would not have attacked that season. But, I truly believed that the game would be over with the Austria/Italian Draw Proposal in the Spring of 1910. I honestly didn’t take much time to consider what would happen if the game continued.

Thanks Wolf for taking on the burden of GM’ing, great job. I hope I helped alleviated some of the boredom by including you with the ‘bcc:’s of my emails. Congratulations again to Tim for the win; though I must say that I would have respected it a lot more if Germany hadn’t voluntarily given up his centers in favor of the Italian Solo. I look forward to playing with all of you in future games . . . hopefully as allies.

Best Regards,
Darryl (Austria)

[Reply]

Being one of the few remaining players that started the game, I feel it appropriate to get into the details a little deeper than we have heard from the replacement players.  Wolf, if you have the email addresses of the players who came and went though out the game, feel free to forward this to them.  Maybe some of them will find it of interest.
 
I have been playing Diplomacy by email for several years now.  Originally on CAT23, but I think that site is just about gone.  I mention this, because my record on DiplomaticCorp does not give you a fair picture of my experience.  I have played every country at least once and soloed with both Germany and Turkey.  My last attempt with Austria failed miserably and I was eliminated by Italy, Russia and Turkey by the end of 1902 (yes, all three.  Not too sure how I offended them all . . . but somehow I did).  So, I watched closely during the games that followed to see how other “Austria’s” played things.  In doing so, I realized that if Italy and/or Austria worked with Turkey, the Sultan invariably stabbed and almost always eliminated both of them.  This was my immediate concern at the beginning of the game.
 
So I set out to get an alliance with Italy.  Knowing that to take Turkey with Italian support, Italy would want Greece (that was what I wanted when I played Italy).  So, I promised to turn Greece over to Italy, provided that he did not occupy Greece with an Army.  Which Italy seemingly was more than happy to agree to . . . and off we went into 1902 . . . when Italy put an Army into Armenia!  Our alliance almost failed right there.
 
After confronting Italy with his broken agreement, Italy professed that he had forgotten that he had agreed to such.  Exactly how having an Italian Army in Armenia could do anything except attack me could not be explained to my satisfaction.  However, at this point, I had already attacked Turkey.  To back out of the alliance with Italy would mean a two front war for me.  Therefore, the only real option was to get Italy back with me, against Turkey.  So, we agreed that Italy would remove the army in Armenia (Greece, shortly thereafter) at his earliest opportunity . . . a little vague, I know . . . but I needed Italy at this point.  However, I made sure that Italy knew he would have to take Greece by force.  This did two things for me; made Italy choose between Greece and Trieste and allow me to retreat from Greece to the Sea zone most advantageous for me after seeing what moves the Sultan used and the choice Italy made.  I am grateful that Italy chose to stay with me and occupied Greece.
 
This moves us into 1903, when I put egg on my face and inadvertently used the abbreviation ‘ven’ for Vienna.  I intended to show good faith by moving my army from Trieste to Vienna . . . not Venice.  Please, before you say that was a stupid mistake . . . sound it out for yourself.  The first syllable for both Vienna and Venice is very similar. I eventually went to spelling everything out right instead of using abbreviations.  Of course, this incident almost put an end to the Austrian/Italian alliance at this point.
 
In the end, however, the action did seem to be fateful as Italy took the opportunity to retreat from attacking Turkey to attack France instead.  I am sure that had Italy not turned at that key point in the game, France would have been able to capitalize on his gains in England and begin his attack on Italy in full force.  As it was, Italy was able to catch France while he was still totally focused on England.
 
It was also at this point that I turned and started to attack Germany.  This might have seemed to be ill fated . . . start a two front war . . . intentionally?  I did it for two reasons; first, France and Germany were working well together.  It was obvious that Germany and France would eliminate England and Russia before we were able to eliminate Turkey.  Therefore, Austria and Italy would likely have Germany and France at our backdoors before we were ready.  Second, I had Turkey bottled up in his home centers.  I could not advance against Turkey without Italian help . . . but then again, Turkey could not break out either.  And, I could maintain this stalemate with a minimal amount of units.  So, it seemed prudent to keep Turkey boxed in and deal with the bigger threat of France and Germany.
 
I played cat and mouse with Germany over the next several seasons . . . sometimes making gains . . . sometimes being set back . . . either way really served my purpose, because while Germany was completely tied up with dealing with me, he was not making gains against Russia.  My attack also served another purpose that I had not realized until the battle was joined.  In order to hold off my attacks . . . Germany had to keep units in his home supply centers.  Therefore, even if Germany made gains elsewhere, he had no open supply centers to build in. Turkey’s NMR came at the same time that Russia decided to give me some assistance in exchange for a supply center or two in return.  Which was probably a mistake since once Turkey was gone it only made sense for me to attack Russia.  A smarter play would have been to give Turkey some assistance against me . . . but, Turkey had already alienated Russia by taking Russian supply centers.
 
The next test of the Austrian/Italian alliance came in 1907.  Italy and Austria both had made great gains against France and Turkey respectively.  And, the newest Russian Tsar was proving to be more . . . capable, than the two previous ones.  It was obvious I was not going to make any more gains until Italy deemed it polite to give me some assistance against Germany . . . whom I had been holding at bay while patiently waiting for Italy to finish off France.  It was at this point that Italy decided we needed to talk about how to split the remaining resources so that neither Italy nor Austria was going to be able to obtain the Solo Victory.
 
REALLY?!? . . . with us each holding only 10 supplies . . . we talk about the end game?  I had been very patient in my cat and mouse game with Germany, knowing that I would be getting nowhere until Italy was able to give me some assistance.  And, now we have to talk about the end game?  The terms that he gave left him ample opportunity for the solo and me on the wrong side of the Stalemate line.    To tell the truth . . . I agreed to them so that Italy would be willing to help me against Germany.  But, this was the first point that I began to suspect that Italy wanted the solo.
 
The next couple of game years went by with Austria and Italy moving well against our respective adversaries.  It was the spring of 1910, when I decided to be certain of how things were going to end.  I put out a request for an Austrian/Italian Draw Proposal.  My thinking was this; the game is at a point where England and Russia should support any draw just so that they can claim survival points instead of being eliminated.  Germany was between Austria and Italy, and would obviously be pummeled until the end . . . therefore, he should also support the draw in order to claim survival points instead of being eliminated.  The only people who had any interest in the game continuing were Austria and Italy.  I voted for the Draw, hoping it would end there.  But, on the odd chance that Italy voted against the draw in the interest of going for the solo, I also occupied Greece and attacked Venice.  Come to find out . . . Italy had forgotten to vote on the proposal all together.
 
Not much to tell after that . . . I immediately tried to get England and Russia to side with me.  Unfortunately . . . neither one of them trusted me . . . despite my doing everything they requested, from the Fall of 1910 forward.  I also recognized that I needed a new fleet if I had any hope of making gains against Italy.  Unfortunately, Italy saw that also and supported one side of my self-standoff into Trieste so that I couldn’t build the fleet (congrats again on that Tim).  Like Tim said . . . if I was really interested in getting the solo, I probably would not have attacked that season.  But, I truly believed that the game would be over with the Austria/Italian Draw Proposal in the Spring of 1910. I honestly didn’t take much time to consider what would happen if the game continued.
 
Thanks Wolf for taking on the burden of GM’ing, great job.  I hope I helped alleviated some of the boredom by including you with the ‘bcc:’s of my emails.  Congratulations again to Tim for the win; though I must say that I would have respected it a lot more if Germany hadn’t voluntarily given up his centers in favor of the Italian Solo.  I look forward to playing with all of you in future games . . . hopefully as allies.
 
Best Regards,
        Darryl (Austria)

[Reply]

[Reply]

First hats off to the GM (whoever said gming was a thankless job!) and as white wolf mentioned earlier this is my first pbem win so dc239 will always be a special game for me. I guess the main factor of my succsess was my alliance with Austria that we both worked at very hard to get going and maintain. It would have been just as satisfying to pull off a it/aus draw but in the end Im glad austria stabbed me. And I just gotta know austria was that move into ven early in the game a misorder or did you plan that? That was pretty much the low point of italy; foreign troops in ven, shut out of turkey and a unfriendly france. Luckily, France wasen't all that active and I managed to roll over him. Unfortunatly that was a big part of the game inactivity and replaced players that allowed austria and me to do so well. I diddint even talk to a russian once! Thanks for all you replacement players who took over hard positions and kept this game running smoothly. As to my final victory push I couldnt have done it without germany I wont speculate why but will leave it to the Kaiser to explain I will just point out that germany IS around to take part in the ending and I am much happier that it is him and not the previous Kaiser. Somewhere in the midgame when austria just started to attack germany I decided to leak austrias turn to the kaiser under the condition he tells no one. So what does he do? Forwards my email to russia! At that point I cancelled my plans to stab austria and swore to myself to destroy germany....I only have one word of advice and its to austria. Your stab and grab happened a few turns too soon. If you had just waited alittle it could have been you with the solo.
Thanks All!
Tim Fuhrmeister.



-----Original Message-----
From: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:44 PM
To: forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email]); dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]); timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email]); cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email]); strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email]); damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email]); brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC-239 Fall 1912 Adjudication

Guys,
  Pretty impressive turn for Italy. Despite a last minute change which included a misorder, Tim finally managed to capture Munich. Plus, with the timely stab of his ally and the capture of England's last center, we have a winner. Congratulations to Tim for his first PBeM solo (that's right, ever.)
  I've taken the liberty of forcing all retreats, regardless of the number of available options, in order to get us to the winter and an official finale. If anyone's butthurt about this command decision, feel free to complain about it in your EoG (that means I hope to see some!)
  Thanks all for a great game, especially Packrat, Andrew and John, who are all replacements. And yes, though Scott came in after less than a year, he still counts.
  As stated in a roundabout fashion above, I'd love to see EoGs. Feel free to "Reply All" to this email when composing.

Players:

Austria:    Darryl Good           dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])
England:   Packrat                 brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
France:    Civil Disorder
Germany: Andrew Tanner      damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])
Italy:        Tim Fuhrmeister     timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Russia:    John R                  untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey:    Civil Disorder


Orders:

Austria:
A Berlin Supports A Warsaw - Prussia
A Bohemia Supports A Munich (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Galicia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
A Greece Hold
A Munich Supports A Berlin (*Disbanded*)
A Serbia Supports A Greece
A Silesia Supports A Berlin
A Smyrna - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Trieste Hold
A Vienna Supports F Trieste
A Warsaw - Prussia

England:
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Dislodged*)

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Sweden
A Livonia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
F Prussia - Berlin (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Adriatic Sea - Albania
F Aegean Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Apulia - Venice
A Belgium - Holland
A Burgundy Supports A Kiel - Ruhr (*Void*)
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark
F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Kiel - Munich
F North Sea Supports F Norwegian Sea - Norway
F Norwegian Sea - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Kiel - Munich
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
A Tyrolia - Bohemia (*Fails*)
A Venice - Piedmont

Russia:
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)


Retreats:

Austrian F Eastern Mediterranean can retreat to Syria or OTB.
Austrian A Munich has no retreats, disbanded.
English F Norway can retreat to Skagerrak,Barents Sea or OTB.
German F Prussia can retreat to Baltic Sea or OTB.


Retreat Orders:

Austria:
F Eastern Mediterranean - Syria

England:
F Norway - Barents Sea

Germany:
F Prussia - Baltic Sea


Final Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)

Austria: (13/12)
Armies - Ber, Boh, Bul, Gal, Gre, Pru, Ser, Sil, Smy, Vie
Fleets - Syr, Tri

England: (0/1) ELIMINATED
Fleets - Bar

France: ELIMINATED 1909

Germany: (1/3)
Armies - Lvn
Fleets - Bal, Swe

Italy: (18/14)
Armies - Bur, Hol, Mun, Pie, Ruh, Trl, Ven
Fleets - Aeg, Alb, Den, Eas, Ion, Nth, Nwy

Russia: (2/1)
Armies - Mos

Turkey: ELIMINATED 1906


Final Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!

Thanks for a great game, everyone,
The White Wolf

I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
 http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/

[Reply]

Guys,
  Pretty impressive turn for Italy. Despite a last minute change which included a misorder, Tim finally managed to capture Munich. Plus, with the timely stab of his ally and the capture of England's last center, we have a winner. Congratulations to Tim for his first PBeM solo (that's right, ever.)
  I've taken the liberty of forcing all retreats, regardless of the number of available options, in order to get us to the winter and an official finale. If anyone's butthurt about this command decision, feel free to complain about it in your EoG (that means I hope to see some!)
  Thanks all for a great game, especially Packrat, Andrew and John, who are all replacements. And yes, though Scott came in after less than a year, he still counts.
  As stated in a roundabout fashion above, I'd love to see EoGs. Feel free to "Reply All" to this email when composing.

Players:

Austria:    Darryl Good           dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])
England:   Packrat                 brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
France:    Civil Disorder
Germany: Andrew Tanner      damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])
Italy:        Tim Fuhrmeister     timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Russia:    John R                  untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey:    Civil Disorder


Orders:

Austria:
A Berlin Supports A Warsaw - Prussia
A Bohemia Supports A Munich (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Galicia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
A Greece Hold
A Munich Supports A Berlin (*Disbanded*)
A Serbia Supports A Greece
A Silesia Supports A Berlin
A Smyrna - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Trieste Hold
A Vienna Supports F Trieste
A Warsaw - Prussia

England:
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Dislodged*)

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Sweden
A Livonia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
F Prussia - Berlin (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Adriatic Sea - Albania
F Aegean Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Apulia - Venice
A Belgium - Holland
A Burgundy Supports A Kiel - Ruhr (*Void*)
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark
F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Kiel - Munich
F North Sea Supports F Norwegian Sea - Norway
F Norwegian Sea - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Kiel - Munich
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
A Tyrolia - Bohemia (*Fails*)
A Venice - Piedmont

Russia:
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)


Retreats:

Austrian F Eastern Mediterranean can retreat to Syria or OTB.
Austrian A Munich has no retreats, disbanded.
English F Norway can retreat to Skagerrak,Barents Sea or OTB.
German F Prussia can retreat to Baltic Sea or OTB.


Retreat Orders:

Austria:
F Eastern Mediterranean - Syria

England:
F Norway - Barents Sea

Germany:
F Prussia - Baltic Sea


Final Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)

Austria: (13/12)
Armies - Ber, Boh, Bul, Gal, Gre, Pru, Ser, Sil, Smy, Vie
Fleets - Syr, Tri

England: (0/1) ELIMINATED
Fleets - Bar

France: ELIMINATED 1909

Germany: (1/3)
Armies - Lvn
Fleets - Bal, Swe

Italy: (18/14)
Armies - Bur, Hol, Mun, Pie, Ruh, Trl, Ven
Fleets - Aeg, Alb, Den, Eas, Ion, Nth, Nwy

Russia: (2/1)
Armies - Mos

Turkey: ELIMINATED 1906


Final Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!

Thanks for a great game, everyone,
The White Wolf

I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/

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Not that I think it is likely to happen - but what if BOTH proposals pass??

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Hey all,
 
I've remained much more silent than normal in this game, a big part of which is attributable to the fact of me being on dial-up instead of my usual high-speed internet. But since everyone else in sending out lengthy emails, I feel obliged to at least chime in.
 
White Wolf reminded us to be civil, but honestly I don't think Packrat or Germany crossed the line in my opinion. Sure, they both bandied about the word liar, but in a game like this, that's hardly unexpected or unfair. And Andrew, Packrat is ranting for a purpose. I wouldn't fear his claims about never playing with you again (I'm sure that struck fear into your heart). I've played some 5 or so games with packrat. In the very first one he swore never to trust me or work with me again, but in every game we've ended up working together at least for a portion of the game.
 
All that aside, though, Packrat was 100% right in that you should have worked with us. It's obvious this game is going to go to either A or I or an A/I draw. Since my arrival on the board, Packrat and I have worked with the other powers to stop the advancing hordes, but the other powers (france and both germans), seemed unwilling to see the need for unity. After last turn, it is unquestionably too late to stop Italy and austria. The only question is who will take the prize. I know Andrew has to be hoping to be enough of a force to be a weaker third power in a draw, which is a fair plan. However, since this means he would have to vote against the A/I draw proposals and since he isn't much of a threat, it seems A and I would be better served to carve him up and then go for the two way (or race to a solo, whatever).
 
For my part, I hold a key position on the board. I intend to continue holding it. It is to the interest of everyone besides Austria to leave me there and even to assure I have one support each season. All I'm looking for is a survival, and, again, I believe my survival benefits us all (apart from austria). So duke it out if you must, just make sure we keep Austria out of scandanavia by supporting me. In exchange, I'll vote for any end-game proposal that comes my way no matter how crazy it may be. Want to propose a solo for the fleet in the aegean sea? I'm on board!
 
John

 

From: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:41:46 PM
Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication

<GRIN>

Trust me - I'm not as worked up as you think I am.


From: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:25:33 PM
Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication

Hey you can have all the beef with me you want or define matters as you wish.  I don't believe Diplomacy is a role playing game, I don't play it as such, and never will, whether you like it or not.  Even when ostensibly playing a role if you act in a manner that seems offensive, I will call you on it - regardless of whatever lists discuss the issue at length or what conclusions they draw.

Did I ever say you did or didn't give STP back?  When was that an issue?  I stated that you took Russian territory, which you did.  I don't argue the point that it was given back - in fact it is pretty clear from the game record that you did - but its just not relevant to the fact of whether or not you owned Russian territory at one point.


Hey whatever strokes your ego best- I'm sure you have and will again do amazing things in the final throes of a board game.  However you do not know what I considered.  I considered working with you, but you seemed too caught up on how 'hard' you worked to take Norway back from the old Germany for my taste.  I considered working with Austria, but didn't see a real future in that since he could solo without my help.  I considered working with Italy, and he turned out to be the best match as an ally.  We'll see what happens next.


We could argue perpetually about the game itself, but to no end - we will probably never agree.  I called you on what I perceived as rude behavior, and you don't agree with that.  I've argued everything I've felt compelled to argue.  From here I'll play as I see fit, and you play as you see fit, and with luck we won't meet in a game again.  


You can of course feel free to respond or argue or do whatever you'd like with this final message.  Again, whatever strokes the ego and makes you happy.  But I won't respond in kind.  Feel free to have the last word.  I've said my piece - and thoroughly enjoyed seeing you get worked up over it.


Peace!





On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7a4a6fc670] Diplomacy is a ROLE PLAYING game - and if you cannot separate the person from
the role then YOU are the one in need of therapy. 

This point has been discussed at some length on different lists.  I would happily play with
Tim in any future games since he generally deals in an even handed manner.  Oh - and just
to be clear - my problem was not actually Italy taking my dots - I half expected that - so
much as it was he statement that Germany forced his hand.  That was a ludicrous statement
at best.

What you don't know is that I vacated STP  and GAVE STP BACK to Russia as part of
a plan to get things back on track.  You just have no clue what the heck you are talking about
and while that isn't your fault, you talk as if you know - and you don't.

One thing you never considered was you and I working against A/I.  It would certainly not
have been easy, but it could have been done.  You wanted to push how worthless my position
was and pushed that cause.  What you don't know is that players like Tim know me from Cat23
and they know what I can do in these situations.  And I honestly believe THAT is a part of why
Tim did what he did.  Actually a smart move on his part.  The cowardly part was blaming it on
Germany.


From: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>

Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:04:53 PM

Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication




"Please note the comments are framed in terms of Germany, England, Russia and Italy and NOT
Tim, John or Andrew.  Press can spew anything the publisher would like it to, and I tend to use
it as a tool."

Nice try.  Everyone knows who is playing Italy.  It is illogical to go on about 'Italian cowardice' unless the supposed cowardice is intrinsic to the character of Italy itself.  As 'Italy' is but three dots and units in a particular geographic position to begin a game, and does not move nor formulate strategy of its own accord, it follows that the player who is controlling the nation is ultimately the focus of all diplomacy, press, condemnations, and rankings.

Bottom line - if you were truly insulting 'Italy' as separate from 'Tim' you suffer from a particularly acute cognitive disconnect and you may want to consider intensive therapy under the guidance of a trained professional.


"Now, I think you underestimate your influence here.  It was YOUR whining and carrying on and
calling for my death that made this worse."

Hm.  A compliment of sorts!  If whining and carrying on and calling for death on my part has such a profound effect, I'd be interested to see what would happen if I applied the far more sophisticated and thus likely effective techniques of intimidation or persuasion.  


"As for your argument that you wanted Italy to give you 
EDI - well - if that was indeed the case then WHY SUPPORT HIM in to EDI??"

Hm.  Good point...my plans were less than optimal on this point, clearly.  With a ranked order preference of 1.  Staying at 5 centers, 2.  Finding the optimal arrangement required in order to forestall Austrian advances and maybe roll him back, or 3.  Letting you get a build that would serve no purpose, clearly when flat out denied number 1 by Italy who had no desire to see me in his path of expansion I should have reverted to my lowest preference, 3, rather than take the next best option, 2, which now allows Italy to force an immediate and likely permanent quantitative superiority in the Mediterranean that can threaten Austria's entire southern front. 


"Before you came on board and disrupted things we were all working on stopping Austria - plain 
and simple."

Well, I still am, and Italy, and I imagine Russia as well.  Funny, your unwilling sacrifice makes it easier to stop Austria.  So in a sense everyone still is working on stopping Austria - plain and simple.


"As for me owning a "fair bit" of Russian territory - all I ever got that was Russian was STP.  NEVER
any further than that."

Quite consoling to Russia, I imagine.  Still, point to you there, I was thinking you'd made it into Moscow, when you'd only moved to Livonia, adjacent to an empty Warsaw.  Oh, and supported Germany to Russia's center in Sweden.  Clearly, I'm an evil, terrible lier. 
 
"In this game, in general, you expect some degree of duplicity and deceit, but there are actually precious 
few who outright lie as you have since you got here.  Take comfort in knowing I will not be in any future
games with you, sir."

Whew!  Load off my mind.  Although that we share this game was not your choice, and if I come in as a replacement, it may not be then either.  But at least, as I'm sure everyone I've played against can attest, you are absolutely correct that I am one of the 'precious few' who outright lie rather than merely deceive and generally carry on in a duplicitous manner.


All that aside, no on an Austria/England draw and I propose a DIAS


Cheers!


Andrew


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7a4a6fc670] My dear Kaiser -
Please note the comments are framed in terms of Germany, England, Russia and Italy and NOT
Tim, John or Andrew.  Press can spew anything the publisher would like it to, and I tend to use
it as a tool.

Now, I think you underestimate your influence here.  It was YOUR whining and carrying on and
calling for my death that made this worse.  As for your argument that you wanted Italy to give you
EDI - well - if that was indeed the case then WHY SUPPORT HIM in to EDI?? 

Before you came on board and disrupted things we were all working on stopping Austria - plain
and simple.

As for me owning a "fair bit" of Russian territory - all I ever got that was Russian was STP.  NEVER
any further than that.

In this game, in general, you expect some degree of duplicity and deceit, but there are actually precious
few who outright lie as you have since you got here.  Take comfort in knowing I will not be in any future
games with you, sir.






From: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:44:53 PM
Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication



Wow.  Insults because a player acted in his own self interest.  Nice to know you can play a game and have someone publicly crying and spewing rudeness because you don't get what you want.  Way to make the game enjoyable for everyone. 
 
Yeah, I was trying to convince him to help crush you - but you don't see him giving me Edi as I asked, do you?  And do you see ME potentially being able to solo here?  Nope.  Its Italy, Austria, or some draw with both of them in it.  And lets see...he went from being down a center to up a center - and at no cost except, oh yes, assertions of cowardice.  Apparently making a good move is a sign of cowardice.  And because the moves sort of kind of favor me in the short run he is afraid of me?  Apparently I can do great harm through a compter terminal
 
Where do you get that Russia will be eliminated anyway?  We've just as big of an interest in supporting him in place to block an Austrian solo as anyone else.  And now that Austria has kindly moved away - he's not even threatened!
 
As a 'short timer' who came in to try and help an end stage game run smoothly to the finish, I suppose my arguments against the utility of your being left alive have less value.  But how about this.  Russia, if you want to pay back this guy for owning a fair bit of your territory back when, I'm more than happy to support STP-NWY anytime you are ready.  Heck, we do it right and you could score a build.
 
Andrew

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7a4a6fc670] I know the fortunes of this game turn on a dime (Hell, they just did) but please
consider the following.

One player who has been here since March (6 MONTHs ago) and the third
Russian player are about to be eliminated because Italy hasn't got the BALLS
to stand up to someone who has been here for a little over a week.  I'm not sure
why Italy is so afraid of Germany - but his actions and email to me signify that
to be the case.

Worthy of note is that we will be the first countries to be eliminated who did not
run away as did France and Turkey.

So, Russia and I get eliminated and the short timer gets credited with a survival.

I know, I know, nobody said life is fair.  But nor do they say it has to suck this badly either.
Flippin Italian cowardice!!!!!!!!!!

Germany - nice job turning Italy against me.  Guess he is weaker of will than I thought.



From: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Andrew Jameson <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Scott Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:10:44 PM
Subject: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication



Guys,
  Sorry this is late. Totally slipped my mind. Lots of action this round, as Germany goes aggressive, England loses his home centers, and Austria/Italy duke it out.


Players:

Austria:   Darryl Good            dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])
England:  Packrat                 brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
France:    Civil Disorder
Germany: Andrew Tanner      damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])
Italy:        Tim Fuhrmeister     timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Russia:    John R                  untitiled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]untitiled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey:    Civil Disorder


Orders:

Austria:
A Bohemia Supports A Munich
A Budapest - Trieste (*Fails*)
F Constantinople - Aegean Sea
A Greece Hold
A Kiel Supports A Munich (*Dislodged*)
A Livonia - Prussia
A Moscow Supports F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Void*)
A Munich Supports A Kiel (*Cut*)
A Sevastopol - Armenia
A Trieste - Albania
A Tyrolia - Trieste
A Warsaw - Silesia

England:
A Edinburgh Hold (*Dislodged*)
F Norway Supports A St Petersburg

Germany:
A Denmark - Sweden
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark
A Holland Supports A Ruhr - Kiel
F North Sea Supports F Yorkshire - Edinburgh
A Ruhr - Kiel

Italy:
A Belgium Hold
A Burgundy - Munich (*Fails*)
F English Channel Supports A Belgium
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
F London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
A Paris Supports A Burgundy (*Ordered to Move*)
A Picardy Supports A Belgium
A Piedmont Supports A Venice
A Venice Supports A Tyrolia - Trieste
F Yorkshire - Edinburgh

Russia:
A St Petersburg Hold


Retreats:

English A Edinburgh can retreat to Clyde or OTB.
Austrian A Kiel can retreat to Berlin or OTB.

NOTE: I've taken the liberty with both retreats, since there was only one on-board option. Packrat and Darryl, please let me know if you'd prefer OTB, and I'll make the change.


Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)

Austria: (15/12) - Build 1
Armies - Alb, Arm, Ber, Boh, Bud, Gre, Mos, Mun, Pru, Sil, Tri
Fleets - Aeg

England: (1/2) - Disband 1
Armies - Cly
Fleets - Nwy

France: ELIMINATED 1909

Germany: (4/5) - Disband 1
Armies - Hol, Kie, Swe
Fleets - Den, Nth

Italy: (13/12) - Build 1
Armies - Bel, Bur, Par, Pic, Pie, Ven
Fleets - Adr, Edi, Eng, Lon, Lvp, Wes

Russia: (1/1)
Armies - StP

Turkey: ELIMINATED 1906


Deadline:

Winter 1910 is due Monday, September 14 at 2pm EDT (6pm GMT.) I'll put out a corrected map ASAP if either Packrat or Darryl choose to remove their retreated unit.
Any issues or errors, let me know.


Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!

Thanks all,
The White Wolf


I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/

[Reply]

[Reply]

Diplomacy is a ROLE PLAYING game - and if you cannot separate the person from
the role then YOU are the one in need of therapy.

This point has been discussed at some length on different lists. I would happily play with
Tim in any future games since he generally deals in an even handed manner. Oh - and just
to be clear - my problem was not actually Italy taking my dots - I half expected that - so
much as it was he statement that Germany forced his hand. That was a ludicrous statement
at best.

What you don't know is that I vacated STP and GAVE STP BACK to Russia as part of
a plan to get things back on track. You just have no clue what the heck you are talking about
and while that isn't your fault, you talk as if you know - and you don't.

One thing you never considered was you and I working against A/I. It would certainly not
have been easy, but it could have been done. You wanted to push how worthless my position
was and pushed that cause. What you don't know is that players like Tim know me from Cat23
and they know what I can do in these situations. And I honestly believe THAT is a part of why
Tim did what he did. Actually a smart move on his part. The cowardly part was blaming it on
Germany.


From: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>

Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:04:53 PM

Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication




"Please note the comments are framed in terms of Germany, England, Russia and Italy and NOT
Tim, John or Andrew. Press can spew anything the publisher would like it to, and I tend to use
it as a tool."

Nice try. Everyone knows who is playing Italy. It is illogical to go on about 'Italian cowardice' unless the supposed cowardice is intrinsic to the character of Italy itself. As 'Italy' is but three dots and units in a particular geographic position to begin a game, and does not move nor formulate strategy of its own accord, it follows that the player who is controlling the nation is ultimately the focus of all diplomacy, press, condemnations, and rankings.

Bottom line - if you were truly insulting 'Italy' as separate from 'Tim' you suffer from a particularly acute cognitive disconnect and you may want to consider intensive therapy under the guidance of a trained professional.


"Now, I think you underestimate your influence here. It was YOUR whining and carrying on and
calling for my death that made this worse."

Hm. A compliment of sorts! If whining and carrying on and calling for death on my part has such a profound effect, I'd be interested to see what would happen if I applied the far more sophisticated and thus likely effective techniques of intimidation or persuasion.


"As for your argument that you wanted Italy to give you
EDI - well - if that was indeed the case then WHY SUPPORT HIM in to EDI??"

Hm. Good point...my plans were less than optimal on this point, clearly. With a ranked order preference of 1. Staying at 5 centers, 2. Finding the optimal arrangement required in order to forestall Austrian advances and maybe roll him back, or 3. Letting you get a build that would serve no purpose, clearly when flat out denied number 1 by Italy who had no desire to see me in his path of expansion I should have reverted to my lowest preference, 3, rather than take the next best option, 2, which now allows Italy to force an immediate and likely permanent quantitative superiority in the Mediterranean that can threaten Austria's entire southern front.


"Before you came on board and disrupted things we were all working on stopping Austria - plain
and simple."

Well, I still am, and Italy, and I imagine Russia as well. Funny, your unwilling sacrifice makes it easier to stop Austria. So in a sense everyone still is working on stopping Austria - plain and simple.


"As for me owning a "fair bit" of Russian territory - all I ever got that was Russian was STP. NEVER
any further than that."

Quite consoling to Russia, I imagine. Still, point to you there, I was thinking you'd made it into Moscow, when you'd only moved to Livonia, adjacent to an empty Warsaw. Oh, and supported Germany to Russia's center in Sweden. Clearly, I'm an evil, terrible lier.

"In this game, in general, you expect some degree of duplicity and deceit, but there are actually precious
few who outright lie as you have since you got here. Take comfort in knowing I will not be in any future
games with you, sir."

Whew! Load off my mind. Although that we share this game was not your choice, and if I come in as a replacement, it may not be then either. But at least, as I'm sure everyone I've played against can attest, you are absolutely correct that I am one of the 'precious few' who outright lie rather than merely deceive and generally carry on in a duplicitous manner.


All that aside, no on an Austria/England draw and I propose a DIAS


Cheers!


Andrew


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:a75e022470]My dear Kaiser -
Please note the comments are framed in terms of Germany, England, Russia and Italy and NOT
Tim, John or Andrew. Press can spew anything the publisher would like it to, and I tend to use
it as a tool.

Now, I think you underestimate your influence here. It was YOUR whining and carrying on and
calling for my death that made this worse. As for your argument that you wanted Italy to give you
EDI - well - if that was indeed the case then WHY SUPPORT HIM in to EDI??

Before you came on board and disrupted things we were all working on stopping Austria - plain
and simple.

As for me owning a "fair bit" of Russian territory - all I ever got that was Russian was STP. NEVER
any further than that.

In this game, in general, you expect some degree of duplicity and deceit, but there are actually precious
few who outright lie as you have since you got here. Take comfort in knowing I will not be in any future
games with you, sir.






From: Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:44:53 PM
Subject: Re: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication



Wow. Insults because a player acted in his own self interest. Nice to know you can play a game and have someone publicly crying and spewing rudeness because you don't get what you want. Way to make the game enjoyable for everyone.

Yeah, I was trying to convince him to help crush you - but you don't see him giving me Edi as I asked, do you? And do you see ME potentially being able to solo here? Nope. Its Italy, Austria, or some draw with both of them in it. And lets see...he went from being down a center to up a center - and at no cost except, oh yes, assertions of cowardice. Apparently making a good move is a sign of cowardice. And because the moves sort of kind of favor me in the short run he is afraid of me? Apparently I can do great harm through a compter terminal

Where do you get that Russia will be eliminated anyway? We've just as big of an interest in supporting him in place to block an Austrian solo as anyone else. And now that Austria has kindly moved away - he's not even threatened!

As a 'short timer' who came in to try and help an end stage game run smoothly to the finish, I suppose my arguments against the utility of your being left alive have less value. But how about this. Russia, if you want to pay back this guy for owning a fair bit of your territory back when, I'm more than happy to support STP-NWY anytime you are ready. Heck, we do it right and you could score a build.

Andrew

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:a75e022470] I know the fortunes of this game turn on a dime (Hell, they just did) but please
consider the following.

One player who has been here since March (6 MONTHs ago) and the third
Russian player are about to be eliminated because Italy hasn't got the BALLS
to stand up to someone who has been here for a little over a week. I'm not sure
why Italy is so afraid of Germany - but his actions and email to me signify that
to be the case.

Worthy of note is that we will be the first countries to be eliminated who did not
run away as did France and Turkey.

So, Russia and I get eliminated and the short timer gets credited with a survival.

I know, I know, nobody said life is fair. But nor do they say it has to suck this badly either.
Flippin Italian cowardice!!!!!!!!!!

Germany - nice job turning Italy against me. Guess he is weaker of will than I thought.



From: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Thomas Curran <forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; DC239 Forum <dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>; Tim Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Darryl Good <dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Andrew Jameson <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; John Reside <Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Matthew Strebe <strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Scott Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:10:44 PM
Subject: DC-239 Fall 1910 Adjudication



Guys,
Sorry this is late. Totally slipped my mind. Lots of action this round, as Germany goes aggressive, England loses his home centers, and Austria/Italy duke it out.


Players:

Austria: Darryl Good dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])
England: Packrat brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
France: Civil Disorder
Germany: Andrew Tanner damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])
Italy: Tim Fuhrmeister timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Russia: John R untitiled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]untitiled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: Civil Disorder


Orders:

Austria:
A Bohemia Supports A Munich
A Budapest - Trieste (*Fails*)
F Constantinople - Aegean Sea
A Greece Hold
A Kiel Supports A Munich (*Dislodged*)
A Livonia - Prussia
A Moscow Supports F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Void*)
A Munich Supports A Kiel (*Cut*)
A Sevastopol - Armenia
A Trieste - Albania
A Tyrolia - Trieste
A Warsaw - Silesia

England:
A Edinburgh Hold (*Dislodged*)
F Norway Supports A St Petersburg

Germany:
A Denmark - Sweden
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark
A Holland Supports A Ruhr - Kiel
F North Sea Supports F Yorkshire - Edinburgh
A Ruhr - Kiel

Italy:
A Belgium Hold
A Burgundy - Munich (*Fails*)
F English Channel Supports A Belgium
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
F London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
A Paris Supports A Burgundy (*Ordered to Move*)
A Picardy Supports A Belgium
A Piedmont Supports A Venice
A Venice Supports A Tyrolia - Trieste
F Yorkshire - Edinburgh

Russia:
A St Petersburg Hold


Retreats:

English A Edinburgh can retreat to Clyde or OTB.
Austrian A Kiel can retreat to Berlin or OTB.

NOTE: I've taken the liberty with both retreats, since there was only one on-board option. Packrat and Darryl, please let me know if you'd prefer OTB, and I'll make the change.


Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)

Austria: (15/12) - Build 1
Armies - Alb, Arm, Ber, Boh, Bud, Gre, Mos, Mun, Pru, Sil, Tri
Fleets - Aeg

England: (1/2) - Disband 1
Armies - Cly
Fleets - Nwy

France: ELIMINATED 1909

Germany: (4/5) - Disband 1
Armies - Hol, Kie, Swe
Fleets - Den, Nth

Italy: (13/12) - Build 1
Armies - Bel, Bur, Par, Pic, Pie, Ven
Fleets - Adr, Edi, Eng, Lon, Lvp, Wes

Russia: (1/1)
Armies - StP

Turkey: ELIMINATED 1906


Deadline:

Winter 1910 is due Monday, September 14 at 2pm EDT (6pm GMT.) I'll put out a corrected map ASAP if either Packrat or Darryl choose to remove their retreated unit.
Any issues or errors, let me know.


Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!

Thanks all,
The White Wolf


I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/

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