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dc122 AAWF Game End! - offdisc   (Jan 04, 2009, 10:33 pm)
Hi All,
I'd like to thank Michael for GMing this game and cannot wait for the
next one to start! FOW is an interesting twist to Diplomacy, and I've
enjoyed each game so far.

This game had so many twists and turns, broken alliances, broken
promises -- you needed a scorecard to figure out the teams. I doubt
anyone ended the game with anyone they hadn't been attacking earlier
on.

I started the game fairly slowly, and Rolf and I bumped heads
immediately in the South. I fully admit that I should have been wiped
out early, but for the grace of Chris. I felt very bad about stabbing
him later, but Jorge offered me a deal I couldn't pass up.

Once established, I moved on Rolf and tried to make a strong line
against Isaac. Isaac, to his credit, saw what was happening, and
offered me a nice deal. I waited WAY too long before moving against
Jorge, and it cost me the agreement. By the time I moved against
Jorge, he offered Isaac a better deal than I could give (and
truthfully I hadn't made the best impression on Isaac), and thus began
the endgame from Hell.

I know that Rolf understands it was nothing personal about trying to
cut him out of a survivor status. I just didn't feel that a 1-center
player deserved to be included when everyone else had over 10 centers.

Personally, I agree with Mike's reasons for his decision... and I
would say the same thing regardless of whether I was in mine or Rolf's
position. I can definitely say I would never have been in Jorge's or
Isaac's position because that is not the way I believe the game should
be played. You play to win, or when that is impossible or you feel
amazing loyalty, you play to and end that is reachable. The 2-way
draw that Isaac and Jorge were working towards would have taken
several months to achieve, *IF* I didn't simply condense my units to a
stalemate position in the North or South. Not sure one was totally
possible, but it was going to take a long time to find out. In the
meantime, Rolf continued to exist for no reason other than Jorge's
promise, and would have eventually been eliminated to achieve the
2-way. That is what I was calling "silly". You can be mad at someone
for breaking an alliance, but seriously, give some credit when it may
be due.

But that's another story and I'm not going further into that.... I'll
write this endgame off as a quirk of a weird game and hope to play
alongside each and every one of you in a future game!

Mike
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great

[Reply]

dc122 AAWF Game End! - FuzzyLogic   (Jan 04, 2009, 9:42 am)
Dc122, [u:71b9e192cd]The Ancient Art of War in Fog[/u:71b9e192cd] – started way back in August of 2007, has finally come to a close nearly 500 days later. An unconventional ending, the game is called a DIAS by the GM. Congrats to Jorge, Isaac, Mike and Rolf for sharing in this marathon 4-way draw!

Final counts:
* Isaac: 23
* Jorge: 21
* Mike: 13
* Rolf: 1

The game was called a draw as a result of no progress, a warning 2 years ago that it would come to this, and no attempt by the players to tell of the progress they intended to make. As the GM, I offered 4 possible endings to the players, or if they did not want the game to end immediately, they had to explain to me how they planned to get something else. Nobody chose to do this, and so the game is over. The proposed 3-way, 2-way, and solo were voted down, so the game is a 4-way DIAS.

GM commentary:
**************************************************

This was an unexpected way to have to end a game, but it was necessary, as the only strategy I was being given was that two of the three larger players were trying solely to eliminate the third – while leaving a 4th player on 1 undefended dot, alive. Though possible in theory, it was a common consensus that this would have taken many more years, while at the same time a player who could actually win the game was passing up an uncontested victory turn after turn. About 2 years of possible wins simply by walking into the appropriate centers were dismissed. The 4th and final player was left in a situation with 1 unit and 1 center, but the unit on a separate island and completely unable to stay alive aside from by another’s will for him to live by not walking into his last center.

That is ultimately the reason I called the game – and while of course everyone will maintain that they play the game for different reasons, and for different goals – and everyone will agree winning isn’t everything, we do have to agree unanimously that we are here to play Diplomacy, and the very clear and explicit goals laid out by the rules of the game, state the goal of playing is to try to get the majority of centers on the board to win. Once players stopped playing for the actual game goals, the game became pointless and it was time to call it.

Some did allege that I did not want to run the game any more, and that is not true at all – I loved running the game, had a great time, and really do enjoy a hard-fought marathon! However a marathon does need to have a purpose, so as to not spin your wheels fruitlessly – like when players have the opportunity to actually win the race yet they don’t take it for some ulterior goals that have been added to the game. Running a race not to win, but simply to try to trip the guy next to you is no longer a race.

End-Game-Statements (EGS) are encouraged and appreciated from all, particularly reflecting on the first half of the game before it reduced down to the slog it became for the latter half.

Final standings: www.diplomaticcorp.com?game_id=dc122
Pleasantview stats: www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Pleasantview

Congrats to all – it was fun making the map, and seeing it play out in two playtests! I’ll release the results of both in a subsequent email.
Enjoy,
-mike





Welcome to this 4th edition of Fog of War...

[u:71b9e192cd]The Ancient Art of War in Fog[/u:71b9e192cd]

www.diplomaticcorp.com?game_id=dc122

FOW general info: www.sims-family.net/dip/fow/fow.htm

First deadline: Spring 01 due Friday 9/7, 2pm Pacific

By now you have all received your starting maps and directives. The map has 58 supply centers, 30 are needed for a solo win.

ABBREVIATIONS: I'll accept anything that isn't vague. If you cant read a map name, you can guess and I'll probly figure it out or you can ask me. Since the map has all new names, many of them hard to decipher, I'm not going to be a stickler for abbreviations. However there are many places with two coasts, and specifying a coast is necessary if a fleet could move to either coast.

FONTS: If you look closely you'll see the fonts vary slightly as you move out from your home land. This definitely IS an indication that you're nearing another player.

THE LINEUP:

Black : Martin Gilbey : the.gilbeys(at)ntlworld.com
Blue : Mike Hoffman : mrh(at)panix.com
Brown : Jorge Saralegui : jorgesaralegui(at)verizon.net
Forest : Trent Woodruff : afretired(at)charter.net
Magenta : Derek Eiler : derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com
Purple : Chris Lockheardt : clockheardt(at)yahoo.com
Red : Lee Taylor : leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk
Teal : Caleb Edwards : teddetted(at)yahoo.com
White : Rolf Loschek : rolfloschek(at)yahoo.de
Yellow : Isaac Zinner : isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com

*********************************************************

A strong cast!!

6 players out of the 10 have played in one of my previous Fog of War games!

Black - Martin Gilbey - a brief showing as a replacement player in FOW2-Return of the Fog - managed a survival in a tough position.

Blue - Mike Hoffman - a strong survivor in F2-ROTF... Strong player, early leader, and you all know where that leads. Smile

Forest - Trent Woodruff - one of the 4 to draw in F2-ROTF! The only player in this game to have been part of the draw-- the other 3 are playing in FOW3 right now.

Magenta - Derek Eiler - one of the players in the original FOW in 2005. Strong showing with a 3-way finish! (also with Steve and Mikael)

Red - Lee Taylor - an unfortunate elimination in F2-ROTF, was a strong central power that got hit from just about every side possible.

Yellow - Isaac Zinner - the first to get the axe in last year's game. I'm sure he has a lot to prove this round!

*********************************************************

And joining us for the first time...

Brown - Jorge Saralegui - 3rd ranked in the club, soloed his first game in DC! What more can you say.

Teal - Caleb Edwards - New to the club, with a strong showing thus far in Tears of Cassandra

White - Rolf Loschek - My arch nemesis in our world konflikte game wk2 - hard negotiator and excellent ally.

Purple - Chris Lockheardt - Players in Dipworld know him no introduction necessary... a legend and welcome addition to the game!

*********************************************************

EARLY NEGOTIATIONS

This is surely an art form in this game. Not only do you not know who your enemies are, but you don’t know where any player is! Keep in mind you are no more than 1 or 2 spaces from a neighbor in every direction. The map truly is brutal, with conflict everywhere. You are welcome to use any tools at your disposal… the Players… the Colors… the Names… the Units… the Maps… to discern your position. It’s all fair game. Note tho forging false maps is also fair game!

General map info: The map is rectangular, and it does not wrap around. So there are 4 definite corners. If you see a flat edge, that does mean you are on an edge. If not… well… good luck!

Any questions do ask! Cc the group if you think an answer would benefit all.
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 AAWF Game End! (dc122) offdisc Jan 04, 10:33 pm
Hi All,
I'd like to thank Michael for GMing this game and cannot wait for the
next one to start! FOW is an interesting twist to Diplomacy, and I've
enjoyed each game so far.

This game had so many twists and turns, broken alliances, broken
promises -- you needed a scorecard to figure out the teams. I doubt
anyone ended the game with anyone they hadn't been attacking earlier
on.

I started the game fairly slowly, and Rolf and I bumped heads
immediately in the South. I fully admit that I should have been wiped
out early, but for the grace of Chris. I felt very bad about stabbing
him later, but Jorge offered me a deal I couldn't pass up.

Once established, I moved on Rolf and tried to make a strong line
against Isaac. Isaac, to his credit, saw what was happening, and
offered me a nice deal. I waited WAY too long before moving against
Jorge, and it cost me the agreement. By the time I moved against
Jorge, he offered Isaac a better deal than I could give (and
truthfully I hadn't made the best impression on Isaac), and thus began
the endgame from Hell.

I know that Rolf understands it was nothing personal about trying to
cut him out of a survivor status. I just didn't feel that a 1-center
player deserved to be included when everyone else had over 10 centers.

Personally, I agree with Mike's reasons for his decision... and I
would say the same thing regardless of whether I was in mine or Rolf's
position. I can definitely say I would never have been in Jorge's or
Isaac's position because that is not the way I believe the game should
be played. You play to win, or when that is impossible or you feel
amazing loyalty, you play to and end that is reachable. The 2-way
draw that Isaac and Jorge were working towards would have taken
several months to achieve, *IF* I didn't simply condense my units to a
stalemate position in the North or South. Not sure one was totally
possible, but it was going to take a long time to find out. In the
meantime, Rolf continued to exist for no reason other than Jorge's
promise, and would have eventually been eliminated to achieve the
2-way. That is what I was calling "silly". You can be mad at someone
for breaking an alliance, but seriously, give some credit when it may
be due.

But that's another story and I'm not going further into that.... I'll
write this endgame off as a quirk of a weird game and hope to play
alongside each and every one of you in a future game!

Mike
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
dc122 tomorrow! - FuzzyLogic   (Sep 18, 2007, 1:09 am)
Hi all,
Deadline approaching! 2pm Pacific…
Getting nervous?
-mike

[Reply]

dc122-AAWF-Rumors - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Rumors spread across the land that the once majestic forces of DEREK (Magenta) have been eliminated! Thanks to Derek for sticking it out the full 7 years to the bitter end…

We are down to 6 players from 10!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 s12 all out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Next is next Wednesday 4/2!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 f12 out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Dc122 fall 12 is out, let’s have builds by Monday if possible…

Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 s13 all out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Retreats by Tuesday, Fall next Friday!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 Rumors! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Rumors spread across the land that the ZERG empire of Chris has been ELIMINATED!

Down to 4 players now!

Retreats by Wednesday, Spring next Monday. All 2pm Pacific.
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 - I'm going to attend a conference / Could... - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Fellow diplomats, Mike

I am going to attend a conference & fair (Telemanagement World in Nice/France) all of next week (Sunday through Thursday) and will need Friday to catch up with work back home in Germany.

Maybe (!) I can spare some time inbetween to sent an occasional mail, but definitely not more. Could move the deadline one week ahead (Wed, 28 Mai 0Cool ?

ROlf


Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com> schrieb:

14 years on the books, next is Spring 15: Wednesday 5/21, 10am Pacific!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSurprisedfficeSurprisedffice" />
-mike




Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.
Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

[Reply]

dc122 - I'm going to attend a conference / Could w... - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
A conference on Telemanagement that won't have Internet access????
Isn't that like a conference on Time Management without clocks? Smile

I'm OK with the delay.

Mike

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Rolf Loschek <rolfloschek(at)yahoo.de ([email]rolfloschek(at)yahoo.de[/email])> wrote:

Fellow diplomats, Mike

I am going to attend a conference & fair (Telemanagement World in Nice/France) all of next week (Sunday through Thursday) and will need Friday to catch up with work back home in Germany.

Maybe (!) I can spare some time inbetween to sent an occasional mail, but definitely not more. Could move the deadline one week ahead (Wed, 28 Mai 0Cool ?

ROlf


Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> schrieb:
[quote:be5f1b72d1] 14 years on the books, next is Spring 15: Wednesday 5/21, 10am Pacific!
-mike




Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.
Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

[/quote:be5f1b72d1]


--
"Giuliani's kinda like a pit bull. He's great when you have a burglar, but if you don't, he just might eat your kids." -- Chris Rock
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great

[Reply]

dc122 - I'm going to attend a conference / Could w... - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
I didn't say the conf hasn't. In fact I have a UMTS card on my laptop,
so technically I could go to the net anytime.

It's only I don't go there to fiddle on the internet. I go for business and this will be a more than busy week with lectures, meetings, Lunches and Diners with customers and social events till late at night.

I'll just have no time for private matters. It's as easy as that.

ROlf




Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> schrieb:

A conference on Telemanagement that won't have Internet access????
Isn't that like a conference on Time Management without clocks? Smile

I'm OK with the delay.

Mike

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Rolf Loschek <rolfloschek(at)yahoo.de ([email]rolfloschek(at)yahoo.de[/email])> wrote:
[quote:abe509f686] Fellow diplomats, Mike

I am going to attend a conference & fair (Telemanagement World in Nice/France) all of next week (Sunday through Thursday) and will need Friday to catch up with work back home in Germany.

Maybe (!) I can spare some time inbetween to sent an occasional mail, but definitely not more. Could move the deadline one week ahead (Wed, 28 Mai 0Cool ?

ROlf


Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> schrieb:
[quote:abe509f686] 14 years on the books, next is Spring 15: Wednesday 5/21, 10am Pacific!
-mike



Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.
Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.


[/quote:abe509f686]


--
"Giuliani's kinda like a pit bull. He's great when you have a burglar, but if you don't, he just might eat your kids." -- Chris Rock
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great [/quote:abe509f686]

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail.
Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

[Reply]

dc122 deadlines - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Retreats & Builds by Monday please…

Tho since I was quite the slacker this turn w my own timeliness I wont NMR on Monday, I’ll hold a day if necessary.

Spring 05 will most likely then be Tuesday the 27th.
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 AAWF - Rumors! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Rumors spread across the land that the Battletech Empire of Martin has been ELIMINATED!
Down to 5 players from an original 10!

Builds: Due Tuesday 2pm Pacific.
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 w10 All Out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Retreats and Builds are all out – Spring 11 is due Friday!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 (AAWF) all out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Everyone should have a map – if you don’t, contact me!
Next deadline: Fall ’08 Wednesday 1/30, 2pm Pacific -- And don’t forget to vote!

Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 all out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
My how time flies… Can’t believe we’re already going into year 9! Seems this game just started yesterday.
Builds and retreats (if you saw any) are all out.
Spring 09 due Thursday Feb 7, 2pm Pacific!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 builds out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Builds are out, Spring 10 is due Thursday Feb 21, 2pm Pacific!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 s10 all out! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
You should all have your new maps – Fall ’10 due in 1 week – Thursday Feb 28, 2pm Pacific!
Enjoy,
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 - vacation notice - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Mike, fellow fog diplomates

I shall be leaving on next Thursday (March 6) for a longer vacation, returning only on April 10.
I'm going down to Chile and as it doens't make sense to fly there from Northern Europe for just a fortnight, it is for four and a half weeks.

A assume this is too long for you to pause, so I could offer a substitute for my role in dc122.
It would be Timo Rebschloe, an experienced player in standard dip an world war variants.

Please let me know if we should halt the game for a month or if you'd prefer to continue with Timo till April 10.

Rolf

Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes für Bastler und Hobby Handwerker.

[Reply]

dc122 - vacation notice - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
I am happy either with an extension or a replacement.

Chris



____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Reply]

dc122 - vacation notice - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
I am happy with either choice as well.

Mike


On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Christopher Lockheardt <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com ([email]clockheardt(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

I am happy either with an extension or a replacement.

Chris



____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping





--
"Giuliani's kinda like a pit bull. He's great when you have a burglar, but if you don't, he just might eat your kids." -- Chris Rock
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great

[Reply]

dc122 deadline approaches! - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
You’ve now got till Friday 1/11, 2pm Pacific
-mike

[Reply]

dc122 - vacation notice - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Me too.

Jorge

--- dc122 <dc122(at)diplomaticcorp.com> wrote:

I am happy with either choice as well.

Mike


On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Christopher
Lockheardt <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com
(clockheardt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote:d4d706c9cc]I am happy either with an extension or a

replacement.


Chris





[/quote:d4d706c9cc]____________________________________________________________________________________

[quote:d4d706c9cc]Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


[/quote:d4d706c9cc]http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
(http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping)




--
"Giuliani's kinda like a pit bull. He's great when
you have a burglar, but if you don't, he just might
eat your kids." -- Chris Rock
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased"
--- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be
performed, Michael is sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory
the Great






[Reply]

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