| dc393 - Game Over - Field_Marshal_Vague (Feb 13, 2012, 5:48 pm) |
Not much more for me to add to the excellent EOG's already.
I started the game in a strong alliance with Russia, which I think became apparent to everyone pretty rapidly. The initial Austrian player was completely silent, which discomfitted me at the beginning. I could have gone either way on attacking Austria or Turkey, but Doug's aggressive early moves against Tim pretty much settled that. Austria's lack of communication suggested to me that there was little chance of coordination between Turkey and Austria, so it seemed the thing to do to defeat them in detail: Turkey first, then Austria.
Then the initial Austrian player dropped out and Mike took over. I didn't realise it at the time, but this was the crucial moment for my game. Tim and I had a good plan of advance worked out for taking on Turkey, and I didn't
want to see that upset. Mike was making all the right noises about wanting to join in with this, and so foolishly I believed him, because it was convenient to believe him. First big mistake - no matter how invested I was in the existing plan, we should have torn it up and thrown it out as soon as the players changed. The second big mistake was in not thinking through that it was highly implausible Mike would side with Tim and me against Doug: he would surely realise he would be next on the menu.
My downfall was sealed by a seemingly innocuous decision: a failure to bounce an Austrian army from moving into Trieste. This apparently minor stab cost me Venice, and it was all downhill from there. I was immediately on the back foot, and stayed that way for the rest of the game. Briefly, France, Germany and myself rallied in a defence of western Europe, and I managed to regain Venice, but the defensive line was
fragile and precarious and relied on lucky breaks going our way. In the event that was irrelevant as James stabbed Buck and the whole thing started to unravel.
Mike made huge inroads into my home centres and I was left with just a couple of units. I couldn't blame Tim for leaving me in the lurch: it was the right call, and I would have done exactly the same thing in his shoes. However, by now he was moving against France and drawing James' attention to the north so I rolled the dice and lurched to the west, hoping to find a quiet spot away from trouble in Iberia and sit it out. It wasn't to be, but my fleet did get as far as Mid Atlantic and I briefly entertained the possibility of trying for somewhere in the British Isles!
The battle lines in the Med swung again and for a time I could camp out with my lonely unit in the Med, hoping to cling on for a survival. This lasted for longer than I could realistically
have hoped for, but once draw votes started being proposed and failing I felt I had to do something to try to exert any tiny influence I had left: the move to Adriatic was intended to throw a wildcard into central Europe. Hopefully, it would make the situation there unpredictable enough that the other players would accept the draw. By the sounds of it, that doesn't seem to have made much difference (though the plan evolved to one of trying to disrupt Austrian fleet movements - if the game had gone on a turn or so, who knows).
In the end it didn't matter, as somewhat to my surprise the draw passed. I didn't expect to be celebrating a one-centre survival (and not even a home centre at that), but this game has been an educational experience, and has been nothing short of fascinating from start to finish (even if I did spend much of it on the sidelines).
Thanks everyone for a great
game!
Ross.
------------------------
"Field_Marshal_Vague"
Ross Galloway
rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com
------------------------
--- On Sat, 11/2/12, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
To: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Douglas Kent" <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>, "james pillington" <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>, "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>, "Ross Galloway" <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>, "Timothy Crosby" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, 11 February, 2012, 0:51
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be added to the website later.
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - fencertim (Feb 13, 2012, 11:24 am) |
I have to admit, i was pretty upset....i was beginning to wonder if you were doing all of that on purpose just to get me going....it was a good tactic, there were times i was not thinking objectively.
tim
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I started the game attacking Russia because he was very aggressive and
demanding in his negotiations. I got one email from Austria, which was
enough for me, as I figured he'd have his hands full elsewhere.
Mike came in as Austria and I explained the situation to him...he was
getting the same read from Russia as I was, so we decided to work together which
also allowed him to focus on Italy (who at this point still thought I believed
we were allies). A number of times Mike switched sides, but I made my
position rather clear: I'd hold out if he attacked me, but Russia was going to
grow faster so I'd rather throw my dots to Mike than let Tim have any.
Plus Tim was so much more entertaining when he was mad - sort of like Jack
McHugh without the smelly socks. Sadly, we couldn't just attack Tim
forever, but eventually he was moving towards the solo.
I can't for the life of me understand France's moves late in the game, but
somehow the 3-way draw passed. I wouldn't have voted for it as
France. Actually, as Russia I would have fought on for a bit and hoped the
stalemate line couldn't be fully completed. Glad to have a piece of the
draw, and to get Tim so irritable at various times...made it fun.
From: Timothy Crosby
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:58 AM
To: Kevin O
Cc: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas
Kent ; james pillington ; Michael
Sims ; Ross Galloway
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow,
where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i
had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some
trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned
more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and
Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a
whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in
now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the
game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at
all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original
Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the
Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the
start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications
with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend
Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall
and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01
arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the
vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or
trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I
wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey
together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us
by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get
you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to
get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns
were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT)
should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on
Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was
tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on
BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not
come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any
progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on
Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of
Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into
France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to
France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting
Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some
mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I
should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back.
France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point
I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the
right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call
at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not
know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i
would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right
at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with
you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I
would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR.
Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned
everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult
for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am
sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe
me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to
playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing
with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i
would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things
up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south
though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet
builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully
recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate
until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the
resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i
remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will
not soon forget.
Tim
Russia
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - fencertim (Feb 13, 2012, 11:05 am) |
I
thought you would let Ross have one of those two spots..so I asked him to order
to ION and delay one of those fleets coming west..then if Turkey did not order
his fleets to sea then you would have had use TUN (if you took it) to support
GRE-ION and that would have given me a full year of fleet movements to the Med.we initially
thought that you would pull one of the armies back to cover but that would have
been too much to risk for in essence what would have been an exchange of
centers.
I
poured over every move I could find to try and win. I was going to lose two
centers to A/T so I had to find replacements for those, really i had to get the 4 that Mike mentioned then two more..and on top of that I had
to do it all with no new units. Maybe I could have done it but the weakest
part of my game is the finish. I found a way to open a home center but i just didn't know how A/T were going to play the next move...there were so many options...and i could have lost a lot more than two.
tim
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
Nice game everybody! A big thanks to Kevin, it's always a pleasure to play in your games and I was happy to step in here. In particular, I enjoy the central powers of Austria and Germany, and here was a replacement spot after only a single turn had passed -- seemed like a great game to fill in for. But then I was in for a surprise, as I'd found RI had pretty much set up a team that was going to be nearly impossible to break. This left me w a sinking feeling in my stomach, for I could sense that AIR was going to take out Turkey, then RI would squeeze me between them and there wasn't much I could do about it.
So to break out of this mold, I went for a very early stab at Ross. I had to break up the 2-way RI somehow, and I didn't feel negotiations were doing it. It was mildly effective, but not quite deathly, as Ross managed to weather the worst of it and stay viable most of the game. The thing that really kept me alive was that Turkey and Russia got off to such a bad start w each other that I was pretty confident RT would fight while I slowly take out Italy. The animosity between RT was so strong, I couldn't figure out if it was for real even or just faked... but it turned out to be real, and that's what I attribute my survival to. They liked each other so little in this game that neither wanted to chance stabbing me for fear of losing to the other.
Naturally I hoped this dynamic would delay them as long as possible, slowly progressing vs Italy, trying everything I could to take you out Ross, after which point I felt I could re-enter the R-A-T negotiations w a safe back side, effectively 1-on-1-on-1.
But then in the west, England disintegrated, and FG got into a 2-way and started marching east way faster than I hoped. They weren't having any sort of the muddled struggle we were in the east. In light of this, I think I started the talks, but RAT came to the conclusion that we really had to stop leveraging vs each other and try to stop the FG who was otherwise going to steamroll east. This worked great, as Tim's pointed out below. We were able to push back with overwhelming strength. 3 on 2, we had the numbers on our side and no stalemate lines for the westerners with Tim pumping out fleets in the north. Around here we talked about doing a 3-way RAT ending.
Then I made a move that I consider questionable... As always, Tim wanting to in the background take Turkey out of the draw, at one point I bought in and made a stab at Turkey - hoping to take him out and end it in a 2-way AR. But, that was a disaster as the turn I stabbed him, he changed up a move as well, and we ended up breaking even when I was hoping to go +2/-2, and as a result, my stab was thwarted, and I felt like quite the schmuck.
Then things got kinda confusing tho, since France and Germany made some what I'd consdier sub-par strategic plays... France I think stabbed Germany mostly killing him off, then Germany sent his last few units into France... all this chaos, I think, was caused by Tim and his wonderful way with words... forever keeping F and G doing just what he wanted -- while constantly marching forward and taking their dots.
I think this explains it beautifully... "James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again". I don't know how you managed to pull this off, constantly moving on FG, yet constantly re-convincing them to either attack each other or move south against me. This must have been some amazing diplomacy and showed some real skill here to make this happen. I remember tipping my hat to you for these feats of diplomacy several times during the game.
As a result, Russia managed to outgrow both Turkey and myself, and things started looking like a win for Russia, Turkey and I both put the recent turn's stab behind us, and we decided to move on Russia to stop the win, and that worked pretty well. We staked out a stalemate line across Tyr-Boh-Gal-Sev, and after that any remaining Russian dots would have to come from France, all while not losing any to TA. It would be tough. But still doable, especially considering the final removal of France, pulling off one of his last two fleets!!!
Tim, in light of France pulling off that last fleet, you had commanding control over the French seas, and I really don't see why you didn't play this out a bit more. 4 dots. Bre-Par-Por-Spa? I think you could have got them. It would have been a race, my and Turkey's fleets racing up to try to hold Spain. The other 3 would have fallen squarely to you. This is why I think my stab of Turkey was bad when I made it, cuz it killed our momentum to get out west and beat you to / help France hold Spain. But at the time, I wasn't thinking you'd still be able to convince France to keep moving south away from you.
I don't think Ross' move in the end to ADR would have changed much. I talked this over w Doug, and I was just going to let him have Ven or Tri, cuz it didn't affect the stalemate line. Then eventually he'd get squeezed out, so probly better to vote for any draw that gets a survival, and I'm happy you got that cuz you were one of the most active players in the game. This game was awesome in terms of the early negotiations. There was so much mail flowing between Ross, Tim, Doug, and myself, which made it a really exciting game. There were lots of stabs which kept it interesting, a solo race, and then a RAT draw which we talked about long ago, before we all got greedy and tried to figure out ways to squeeze so-and-so out. 
Good game,
-mike
Austira
From: Timothy Crosby [mailto:timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com]
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - FuzzyLogic (Feb 13, 2012, 10:12 am) |
Nice game everybody! A big thanks to Kevin, it's always a pleasure to play in your games and I was happy to step in here. In particular, I enjoy the central powers of Austria and Germany, and here was a replacement spot after only a single turn had passed -- seemed like a great game to fill in for. But then I was in for a surprise, as I'd found RI had pretty much set up a team that was going to be nearly impossible to break. This left me w a sinking feeling in my stomach, for I could sense that AIR was going to take out Turkey, then RI would squeeze me between them and there wasn't much I could do about it.
So to break out of this mold, I went for a very early stab at Ross. I had to break up the 2-way RI somehow, and I didn't feel negotiations were doing it. It was mildly effective, but not quite deathly, as Ross managed to weather the worst of it and stay viable most of the game. The thing that really kept me alive was that Turkey and Russia got off to such a bad start w each other that I was pretty confident RT would fight while I slowly take out Italy. The animosity between RT was so strong, I couldn't figure out if it was for real even or just faked... but it turned out to be real, and that's what I attribute my survival to. They liked each other so little in this game that neither wanted to chance stabbing me for fear of losing to the other.
Naturally I hoped this dynamic would delay them as long as possible, slowly progressing vs Italy, trying everything I could to take you out Ross, after which point I felt I could re-enter the R-A-T negotiations w a safe back side, effectively 1-on-1-on-1.
But then in the west, England disintegrated, and FG got into a 2-way and started marching east way faster than I hoped. They weren't having any sort of the muddled struggle we were in the east. In light of this, I think I started the talks, but RAT came to the conclusion that we really had to stop leveraging vs each other and try to stop the FG who was otherwise going to steamroll east. This worked great, as Tim's pointed out below. We were able to push back with overwhelming strength. 3 on 2, we had the numbers on our side and no stalemate lines for the westerners with Tim pumping out fleets in the north. Around here we talked about doing a 3-way RAT ending.
Then I made a move that I consider questionable... As always, Tim wanting to in the background take Turkey out of the draw, at one point I bought in and made a stab at Turkey - hoping to take him out and end it in a 2-way AR. But, that was a disaster as the turn I stabbed him, he changed up a move as well, and we ended up breaking even when I was hoping to go +2/-2, and as a result, my stab was thwarted, and I felt like quite the schmuck.
Then things got kinda confusing tho, since France and Germany made some what I'd consdier sub-par strategic plays... France I think stabbed Germany mostly killing him off, then Germany sent his last few units into France... all this chaos, I think, was caused by Tim and his wonderful way with words... forever keeping F and G doing just what he wanted -- while constantly marching forward and taking their dots.
I think this explains it beautifully... "James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again". I don't know how you managed to pull this off, constantly moving on FG, yet constantly re-convincing them to either attack each other or move south against me. This must have been some amazing diplomacy and showed some real skill here to make this happen. I remember tipping my hat to you for these feats of diplomacy several times during the game.
As a result, Russia managed to outgrow both Turkey and myself, and things started looking like a win for Russia, Turkey and I both put the recent turn's stab behind us, and we decided to move on Russia to stop the win, and that worked pretty well. We staked out a stalemate line across Tyr-Boh-Gal-Sev, and after that any remaining Russian dots would have to come from France, all while not losing any to TA. It would be tough. But still doable, especially considering the final removal of France, pulling off one of his last two fleets!!!
Tim, in light of France pulling off that last fleet, you had commanding control over the French seas, and I really don't see why you didn't play this out a bit more. 4 dots. Bre-Par-Por-Spa? I think you could have got them. It would have been a race, my and Turkey's fleets racing up to try to hold Spain. The other 3 would have fallen squarely to you. This is why I think my stab of Turkey was bad when I made it, cuz it killed our momentum to get out west and beat you to / help France hold Spain. But at the time, I wasn't thinking you'd still be able to convince France to keep moving south away from you.
I don't think Ross' move in the end to ADR would have changed much. I talked this over w Doug, and I was just going to let him have Ven or Tri, cuz it didn't affect the stalemate line. Then eventually he'd get squeezed out, so probly better to vote for any draw that gets a survival, and I'm happy you got that cuz you were one of the most active players in the game. This game was awesome in terms of the early negotiations. There was so much mail flowing between Ross, Tim, Doug, and myself, which made it a really exciting game. There were lots of stabs which kept it interesting, a solo race, and then a RAT draw which we talked about long ago, before we all got greedy and tried to figure out ways to squeeze so-and-so out.
Good game,
-mike
Austira
From: Timothy Crosby [mailto:timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com]
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - fencertim (Feb 13, 2012, 7:58 am) |
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - Field_Marshal_Vague (Feb 11, 2012, 6:37 pm) |
Phew, can't believe I made it!
Good game, thanks everyone for playing and thanks Kevin for GM'ing. It might not have given me the result I hoped for, but I've found this game uniformly fascinating and eventful, with some real upsets along the way. Good stuff!
Cheers everyone.
Ross.
------------------------
"Field_Marshal_Vague"
Ross Galloway
rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com
------------------------
--- On Sat, 11/2/12, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
To: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Douglas Kent" <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>, "james pillington" <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>, "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>, "Ross Galloway" <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>, "Timothy Crosby" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, 11 February, 2012, 0:51
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be added to the website later.
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - FuzzyLogic (Feb 10, 2012, 8:39 pm) |
Wow really? I thought the 4 way would pass but not the 3. Why'd you vote for this James? Your units were integral to holding the stalemate.
Good game all... I'll do an EOG when i'm back in town Monday.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: "dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com>,Douglas Kent <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>,james pillington <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>,Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>,Ross Galloway <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>,Timothy Crosby <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
CC:
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous
vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up
with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be
added to the website later.[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over - kevinokelly (Feb 10, 2012, 6:51 pm) |
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be added to the website later.
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) FuzzyLogic Feb 10, 08:39 pm |
Wow really? I thought the 4 way would pass but not the 3. Why'd you vote for this James? Your units were integral to holding the stalemate.
Good game all... I'll do an EOG when i'm back in town Monday.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: "dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com>,Douglas Kent <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>,james pillington <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>,Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>,Ross Galloway <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>,Timothy Crosby <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
CC:
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous
vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up
with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be
added to the website later. |
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) Field_Marshal_Vague Feb 11, 06:37 pm |
Phew, can't believe I made it!
Good game, thanks everyone for playing and thanks Kevin for GM'ing. It might not have given me the result I hoped for, but I've found this game uniformly fascinating and eventful, with some real upsets along the way. Good stuff!
Cheers everyone.
Ross.
------------------------
"Field_Marshal_Vague"
Ross Galloway
rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com
------------------------
--- On Sat, 11/2/12, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
To: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Douglas Kent" <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>, "james pillington" <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>, "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>, "Ross Galloway" <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>, "Timothy Crosby" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, 11 February, 2012, 0:51
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be added to the website later.
|
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) FuzzyLogic Feb 13, 10:12 am |
Nice game everybody! A big thanks to Kevin, it's always a pleasure to play in your games and I was happy to step in here. In particular, I enjoy the central powers of Austria and Germany, and here was a replacement spot after only a single turn had passed -- seemed like a great game to fill in for. But then I was in for a surprise, as I'd found RI had pretty much set up a team that was going to be nearly impossible to break. This left me w a sinking feeling in my stomach, for I could sense that AIR was going to take out Turkey, then RI would squeeze me between them and there wasn't much I could do about it.
So to break out of this mold, I went for a very early stab at Ross. I had to break up the 2-way RI somehow, and I didn't feel negotiations were doing it. It was mildly effective, but not quite deathly, as Ross managed to weather the worst of it and stay viable most of the game. The thing that really kept me alive was that Turkey and Russia got off to such a bad start w each other that I was pretty confident RT would fight while I slowly take out Italy. The animosity between RT was so strong, I couldn't figure out if it was for real even or just faked... but it turned out to be real, and that's what I attribute my survival to. They liked each other so little in this game that neither wanted to chance stabbing me for fear of losing to the other.
Naturally I hoped this dynamic would delay them as long as possible, slowly progressing vs Italy, trying everything I could to take you out Ross, after which point I felt I could re-enter the R-A-T negotiations w a safe back side, effectively 1-on-1-on-1.
But then in the west, England disintegrated, and FG got into a 2-way and started marching east way faster than I hoped. They weren't having any sort of the muddled struggle we were in the east. In light of this, I think I started the talks, but RAT came to the conclusion that we really had to stop leveraging vs each other and try to stop the FG who was otherwise going to steamroll east. This worked great, as Tim's pointed out below. We were able to push back with overwhelming strength. 3 on 2, we had the numbers on our side and no stalemate lines for the westerners with Tim pumping out fleets in the north. Around here we talked about doing a 3-way RAT ending.
Then I made a move that I consider questionable... As always, Tim wanting to in the background take Turkey out of the draw, at one point I bought in and made a stab at Turkey - hoping to take him out and end it in a 2-way AR. But, that was a disaster as the turn I stabbed him, he changed up a move as well, and we ended up breaking even when I was hoping to go +2/-2, and as a result, my stab was thwarted, and I felt like quite the schmuck.
Then things got kinda confusing tho, since France and Germany made some what I'd consdier sub-par strategic plays... France I think stabbed Germany mostly killing him off, then Germany sent his last few units into France... all this chaos, I think, was caused by Tim and his wonderful way with words... forever keeping F and G doing just what he wanted -- while constantly marching forward and taking their dots.
I think this explains it beautifully... "James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again". I don't know how you managed to pull this off, constantly moving on FG, yet constantly re-convincing them to either attack each other or move south against me. This must have been some amazing diplomacy and showed some real skill here to make this happen. I remember tipping my hat to you for these feats of diplomacy several times during the game.
As a result, Russia managed to outgrow both Turkey and myself, and things started looking like a win for Russia, Turkey and I both put the recent turn's stab behind us, and we decided to move on Russia to stop the win, and that worked pretty well. We staked out a stalemate line across Tyr-Boh-Gal-Sev, and after that any remaining Russian dots would have to come from France, all while not losing any to TA. It would be tough. But still doable, especially considering the final removal of France, pulling off one of his last two fleets!!!
Tim, in light of France pulling off that last fleet, you had commanding control over the French seas, and I really don't see why you didn't play this out a bit more. 4 dots. Bre-Par-Por-Spa? I think you could have got them. It would have been a race, my and Turkey's fleets racing up to try to hold Spain. The other 3 would have fallen squarely to you. This is why I think my stab of Turkey was bad when I made it, cuz it killed our momentum to get out west and beat you to / help France hold Spain. But at the time, I wasn't thinking you'd still be able to convince France to keep moving south away from you.
I don't think Ross' move in the end to ADR would have changed much. I talked this over w Doug, and I was just going to let him have Ven or Tri, cuz it didn't affect the stalemate line. Then eventually he'd get squeezed out, so probly better to vote for any draw that gets a survival, and I'm happy you got that cuz you were one of the most active players in the game. This game was awesome in terms of the early negotiations. There was so much mail flowing between Ross, Tim, Doug, and myself, which made it a really exciting game. There were lots of stabs which kept it interesting, a solo race, and then a RAT draw which we talked about long ago, before we all got greedy and tried to figure out ways to squeeze so-and-so out.
Good game,
-mike
Austira
From: Timothy Crosby [mailto:timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com]
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia |
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) Field_Marshal_Vague Feb 13, 05:48 pm |
Not much more for me to add to the excellent EOG's already.
I started the game in a strong alliance with Russia, which I think became apparent to everyone pretty rapidly. The initial Austrian player was completely silent, which discomfitted me at the beginning. I could have gone either way on attacking Austria or Turkey, but Doug's aggressive early moves against Tim pretty much settled that. Austria's lack of communication suggested to me that there was little chance of coordination between Turkey and Austria, so it seemed the thing to do to defeat them in detail: Turkey first, then Austria.
Then the initial Austrian player dropped out and Mike took over. I didn't realise it at the time, but this was the crucial moment for my game. Tim and I had a good plan of advance worked out for taking on Turkey, and I didn't
want to see that upset. Mike was making all the right noises about wanting to join in with this, and so foolishly I believed him, because it was convenient to believe him. First big mistake - no matter how invested I was in the existing plan, we should have torn it up and thrown it out as soon as the players changed. The second big mistake was in not thinking through that it was highly implausible Mike would side with Tim and me against Doug: he would surely realise he would be next on the menu.
My downfall was sealed by a seemingly innocuous decision: a failure to bounce an Austrian army from moving into Trieste. This apparently minor stab cost me Venice, and it was all downhill from there. I was immediately on the back foot, and stayed that way for the rest of the game. Briefly, France, Germany and myself rallied in a defence of western Europe, and I managed to regain Venice, but the defensive line was
fragile and precarious and relied on lucky breaks going our way. In the event that was irrelevant as James stabbed Buck and the whole thing started to unravel.
Mike made huge inroads into my home centres and I was left with just a couple of units. I couldn't blame Tim for leaving me in the lurch: it was the right call, and I would have done exactly the same thing in his shoes. However, by now he was moving against France and drawing James' attention to the north so I rolled the dice and lurched to the west, hoping to find a quiet spot away from trouble in Iberia and sit it out. It wasn't to be, but my fleet did get as far as Mid Atlantic and I briefly entertained the possibility of trying for somewhere in the British Isles!
The battle lines in the Med swung again and for a time I could camp out with my lonely unit in the Med, hoping to cling on for a survival. This lasted for longer than I could realistically
have hoped for, but once draw votes started being proposed and failing I felt I had to do something to try to exert any tiny influence I had left: the move to Adriatic was intended to throw a wildcard into central Europe. Hopefully, it would make the situation there unpredictable enough that the other players would accept the draw. By the sounds of it, that doesn't seem to have made much difference (though the plan evolved to one of trying to disrupt Austrian fleet movements - if the game had gone on a turn or so, who knows).
In the end it didn't matter, as somewhat to my surprise the draw passed. I didn't expect to be celebrating a one-centre survival (and not even a home centre at that), but this game has been an educational experience, and has been nothing short of fascinating from start to finish (even if I did spend much of it on the sidelines).
Thanks everyone for a great
game!
Ross.
------------------------
"Field_Marshal_Vague"
Ross Galloway
rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com
------------------------
--- On Sat, 11/2/12, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Subject: dc393 - Game Over
To: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Douglas Kent" <diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com>, "james pillington" <mountaindew(at)btconnect.com>, "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>, "Ross Galloway" <rgall.dip(at)btinternet.com>, "Timothy Crosby" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, 11 February, 2012, 0:51
MESSAGE:
The 3-way Austria/Russia/Turkey draw proposal has passed with a unanimous vote.
Thanks to all that played through the game, made orders time, and put up with my delays. Please submit end of game statements. A final map will be added to the website later.
|
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) fencertim Feb 13, 07:58 am |
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia |
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) fencertim Feb 13, 11:05 am |
I
thought you would let Ross have one of those two spots..so I asked him to order
to ION and delay one of those fleets coming west..then if Turkey did not order
his fleets to sea then you would have had use TUN (if you took it) to support
GRE-ION and that would have given me a full year of fleet movements to the Med.we initially
thought that you would pull one of the armies back to cover but that would have
been too much to risk for in essence what would have been an exchange of
centers.
I
poured over every move I could find to try and win. I was going to lose two
centers to A/T so I had to find replacements for those, really i had to get the 4 that Mike mentioned then two more..and on top of that I had
to do it all with no new units. Maybe I could have done it but the weakest
part of my game is the finish. I found a way to open a home center but i just didn't know how A/T were going to play the next move...there were so many options...and i could have lost a lot more than two.
tim
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
Nice game everybody! A big thanks to Kevin, it's always a pleasure to play in your games and I was happy to step in here. In particular, I enjoy the central powers of Austria and Germany, and here was a replacement spot after only a single turn had passed -- seemed like a great game to fill in for. But then I was in for a surprise, as I'd found RI had pretty much set up a team that was going to be nearly impossible to break. This left me w a sinking feeling in my stomach, for I could sense that AIR was going to take out Turkey, then RI would squeeze me between them and there wasn't much I could do about it.
So to break out of this mold, I went for a very early stab at Ross. I had to break up the 2-way RI somehow, and I didn't feel negotiations were doing it. It was mildly effective, but not quite deathly, as Ross managed to weather the worst of it and stay viable most of the game. The thing that really kept me alive was that Turkey and Russia got off to such a bad start w each other that I was pretty confident RT would fight while I slowly take out Italy. The animosity between RT was so strong, I couldn't figure out if it was for real even or just faked... but it turned out to be real, and that's what I attribute my survival to. They liked each other so little in this game that neither wanted to chance stabbing me for fear of losing to the other.
Naturally I hoped this dynamic would delay them as long as possible, slowly progressing vs Italy, trying everything I could to take you out Ross, after which point I felt I could re-enter the R-A-T negotiations w a safe back side, effectively 1-on-1-on-1.
But then in the west, England disintegrated, and FG got into a 2-way and started marching east way faster than I hoped. They weren't having any sort of the muddled struggle we were in the east. In light of this, I think I started the talks, but RAT came to the conclusion that we really had to stop leveraging vs each other and try to stop the FG who was otherwise going to steamroll east. This worked great, as Tim's pointed out below. We were able to push back with overwhelming strength. 3 on 2, we had the numbers on our side and no stalemate lines for the westerners with Tim pumping out fleets in the north. Around here we talked about doing a 3-way RAT ending.
Then I made a move that I consider questionable... As always, Tim wanting to in the background take Turkey out of the draw, at one point I bought in and made a stab at Turkey - hoping to take him out and end it in a 2-way AR. But, that was a disaster as the turn I stabbed him, he changed up a move as well, and we ended up breaking even when I was hoping to go +2/-2, and as a result, my stab was thwarted, and I felt like quite the schmuck.
Then things got kinda confusing tho, since France and Germany made some what I'd consdier sub-par strategic plays... France I think stabbed Germany mostly killing him off, then Germany sent his last few units into France... all this chaos, I think, was caused by Tim and his wonderful way with words... forever keeping F and G doing just what he wanted -- while constantly marching forward and taking their dots.
I think this explains it beautifully... "James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again". I don't know how you managed to pull this off, constantly moving on FG, yet constantly re-convincing them to either attack each other or move south against me. This must have been some amazing diplomacy and showed some real skill here to make this happen. I remember tipping my hat to you for these feats of diplomacy several times during the game.
As a result, Russia managed to outgrow both Turkey and myself, and things started looking like a win for Russia, Turkey and I both put the recent turn's stab behind us, and we decided to move on Russia to stop the win, and that worked pretty well. We staked out a stalemate line across Tyr-Boh-Gal-Sev, and after that any remaining Russian dots would have to come from France, all while not losing any to TA. It would be tough. But still doable, especially considering the final removal of France, pulling off one of his last two fleets!!!
Tim, in light of France pulling off that last fleet, you had commanding control over the French seas, and I really don't see why you didn't play this out a bit more. 4 dots. Bre-Par-Por-Spa? I think you could have got them. It would have been a race, my and Turkey's fleets racing up to try to hold Spain. The other 3 would have fallen squarely to you. This is why I think my stab of Turkey was bad when I made it, cuz it killed our momentum to get out west and beat you to / help France hold Spain. But at the time, I wasn't thinking you'd still be able to convince France to keep moving south away from you.
I don't think Ross' move in the end to ADR would have changed much. I talked this over w Doug, and I was just going to let him have Ven or Tri, cuz it didn't affect the stalemate line. Then eventually he'd get squeezed out, so probly better to vote for any draw that gets a survival, and I'm happy you got that cuz you were one of the most active players in the game. This game was awesome in terms of the early negotiations. There was so much mail flowing between Ross, Tim, Doug, and myself, which made it a really exciting game. There were lots of stabs which kept it interesting, a solo race, and then a RAT draw which we talked about long ago, before we all got greedy and tried to figure out ways to squeeze so-and-so out.
Good game,
-mike
Austira
From: Timothy Crosby [mailto:timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com]
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow, where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01 arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT) should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back. France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR. Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will not soon forget.
Tim
Russia |
| dc393 - Game Over (dc393) fencertim Feb 13, 11:24 am |
I have to admit, i was pretty upset....i was beginning to wonder if you were doing all of that on purpose just to get me going....it was a good tactic, there were times i was not thinking objectively.
tim
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I started the game attacking Russia because he was very aggressive and
demanding in his negotiations. I got one email from Austria, which was
enough for me, as I figured he'd have his hands full elsewhere.
Mike came in as Austria and I explained the situation to him...he was
getting the same read from Russia as I was, so we decided to work together which
also allowed him to focus on Italy (who at this point still thought I believed
we were allies). A number of times Mike switched sides, but I made my
position rather clear: I'd hold out if he attacked me, but Russia was going to
grow faster so I'd rather throw my dots to Mike than let Tim have any.
Plus Tim was so much more entertaining when he was mad - sort of like Jack
McHugh without the smelly socks. Sadly, we couldn't just attack Tim
forever, but eventually he was moving towards the solo.
I can't for the life of me understand France's moves late in the game, but
somehow the 3-way draw passed. I wouldn't have voted for it as
France. Actually, as Russia I would have fought on for a bit and hoped the
stalemate line couldn't be fully completed. Glad to have a piece of the
draw, and to get Tim so irritable at various times...made it fun.
From: Timothy Crosby
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:58 AM
To: Kevin O
Cc: dc393(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas
Kent ; james pillington ; Michael
Sims ; Ross Galloway
Subject: Re: dc393 - Game Over
Wow,
where to begin. It was a fun game thank you all for playing.
Thanks Kevin for running the game for us.
I entered the game thinking that i knew a fair amount about the game....i
had a couple of wins under my belt and my attitude and such got me into some
trouble here....however, regardless of how the game could have ended. I learned
more in this game than all of the others i have played in thanks to Mike and
Doug and Ross. You guys showed me things i had never considered and gave me a
whole new perspective that i have already put into practice in games i am in
now. I feel honored to be part of a wining draw when at a couple points in the
game i did not think i deserved to be there never the less playing the game at
all.
Things started off strange because no one heard a thing from the original
Austria but he has submitted prelims thus we moved on....I agreed to keep the
Black Sea open with Turkey, though he decided to come after me from the
start...which was fine, i was upset because he lied and i had no communications
with Austria which put me in a tough spot. My only other option was to befriend
Italy..we decided to wait and see what would happen with Austria for the Fall
and in the mean time we made plans to attack Turkey together....when Fall 01
arrived there were no Austrian orders so a ringer was brought in to take up the
vacant spot. There is where i ran into the problem of sticking with Italy or
trying to work with Austria....all the plans were laid out with Italy but I
wanted to go with Austria. The three of us talked about attacking Turkey
together, a LOT of discussion was going on.....Austria made the decision for us
by supporting Doug into Rumania so it turned into R/I vs. A/T. Mike i did get
you reasoning why you did that, but I would have dropped Italy in a second to
get back at Doug for stabbing me on the first turn. (sorry Ross) Several turns
were spent stagnating one another around GAL when Mike mentioned that we (RAT)
should join forces or spend the game doing nothing. I had seen a big move on
Germany since i was in GAL and WAR. I was very bitter with Turkey and it was
tough to give in but it worked out....Turkey moved up through GAL and i moved on
BER. I had to let Ross go because Austria needed a place to expand..i could not
come to your defense because this was the only option i had to get any
progress.
RAT went on for most of the game. We approached France to have him turn on
Germany just as England was falling out and that should have been the end of
Germany but France made some curious moves that drove two German armies into
France...I kept building fleets in the north which should have signaled to
France that i would be coming after him but France concentrated on getting
Germany out of his home centers as i moved my fleets closer. I think i made some
mistakes here by not taking either of the two chances i had to get into MAO....I
should not have stabbed France as early as i did i think now looking back.
France made a retreat of a fleet OTB that should have gone to IRI..at that point
I thought i was going to get a win....I think Mike say that too and made the
right move on the next turn to push his units north....you made the right call
at the right time Mike...I will strive to recognize those times because i do not
know that i would have done that were our positions switched and in the end i
would have lost, I think it was that close. If you did not make the move right
at that time the game was going to be lost.
Ross, i am glad you got a survival out of the game. I wanted to stick with
you as an ally but a great opportunity came up and i could not pass on it...I
would have loved to see how this last turn went especially that order for ADR.
Maybe it could have helped me win...we'll never know. Thanks for the game
Doug and Mike, thank you for being patient with me as i questioned
everything that was going on when we were putting RAT together. It was difficult
for me to break out of my single minded mode of thinking but it happened. I am
sure there was more than one time where it would have been easier to just wipe
me out and be done with it...i am glad that didn't happen. I look forward to
playing with you guys again.
Rene....F/G got the jump on you and it was too much to take...nice playing
with you again.
James, I treated you poorly and lied almost every turn....i told you i
would leave England alone then immediately attacked...then tried to patch things
up...then attacked again. As you were telling me that you would move south
though you kept moving fleets north so i did have to respond...with more fleet
builds than i wanted. Nice playing with you and i hope you are fully
recovered.
Buck, Mike made me do it! It was the only way out of 8 years of stalemate
until you were too strong to fight.
Kevin, thanks again for GMing...sorry to keep bugging you about the
resutls...the game was very intense at times.
I am sure i missed some thing from my perspective here but that is what i
remember the most. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. This is one i will
not soon forget.
Tim
Russia
|
| dc393 - Winter 1908 Results - kevinokelly (Feb 03, 2012, 4:35 pm) |
MESSAGE:
Sorry for the delay. Not calling anyone out, but James has been out of touch. I received a message from him earlier this week saying he was still under the weather but submitted tentative orders for Spring, but not a Winter adjustment. So per the rules, I went with the center furthest from a home supply center, which is WMS.
The game is on as usual. There are two draw proposals, proposed as a 3-way RAT and 4-way FART. Please vote with your Spring orders. Once I have received a vote, it will be considered final unless I hear otherwise. Once I have all of the votes and if they all read yes, I will announce the result at that time without revealing Spring orders. Please vote early and often. If you don't vote, it is a NO vote.
DEADLINES:
Spring 1909 - Thursday February 9, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
Build Army Budapest
France:
Remove Fleet Western Mediterranean Sea
Russia:
Build Army St. Petersberg
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Retreats - kevinokelly (Feb 03, 2012, 9:46 am) |
Greetings everyone. I am waiting on one adjustment. I thought I had them all, but one person sent an email that I thought contained his order, but it was just an email. I have followed-up and given until 5p today for the adjustment. All other adjustments are locked, since you know this knowledge.
Attached is the RP and files for Autumn retreats for your records. I plan to update the website today with missed pic files.
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys, sorry I can't get to the adjudicator right now, but I can give you the retreat. I will send a map once the builds are completed.
Italy:
F ION - ADR
Please submit all builds by tomorrow. Also, there are two draw proposals which I will send out at that time.
-kevin
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Retreats - kevinokelly (Jan 31, 2012, 3:08 pm) |
Hi guys, sorry I can't get to the adjudicator right now, but I can give you the retreat. I will send a map once the builds are completed.
Italy:
F ION - ADR
Please submit all builds by tomorrow. Also, there are two draw proposals which I will send out at that time.
-kevin
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Retreats (dc393) kevinokelly Feb 03, 09:46 am |
Greetings everyone. I am waiting on one adjustment. I thought I had them all, but one person sent an email that I thought contained his order, but it was just an email. I have followed-up and given until 5p today for the adjustment. All other adjustments are locked, since you know this knowledge.
Attached is the RP and files for Autumn retreats for your records. I plan to update the website today with missed pic files.
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys, sorry I can't get to the adjudicator right now, but I can give you the retreat. I will send a map once the builds are completed.
Italy:
F ION - ADR
Please submit all builds by tomorrow. Also, there are two draw proposals which I will send out at that time.
-kevin
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1 |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Results - FuzzyLogic (Jan 30, 2012, 7:51 am) |
Anyone care to own up to voting the draw down?
-mike
From: kevinokelly(at)gmail.com on behalf of Kevin O
Sent: Mon 1/30/2012 2:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent; james pillington; Michael Sims; Ross Galloway; Timothy Crosby
Cc: dc393
Subject: dc393 - Fall 1908 Results
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Results - kevinokelly (Jan 30, 2012, 2:55 am) |
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1908 Results (dc393) FuzzyLogic Jan 30, 07:51 am |
Anyone care to own up to voting the draw down?
-mike
From: kevinokelly(at)gmail.com on behalf of Kevin O
Sent: Mon 1/30/2012 2:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent; james pillington; Michael Sims; Ross Galloway; Timothy Crosby
Cc: dc393
Subject: dc393 - Fall 1908 Results
MESSAGE:
Well, as you can probably tell by my email, we do not have a unanimous result of the draw proposal. The game continues.
I will adjudicate the retreats and adjustments early if all orders are marked as final.
DEADLINES:
Retreats - Tuesday January 31, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Winter 1908 - Wednesday February 1, 2012 at GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Disbanded*)
A Budapest - Galicia
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Naples Hold
A Rumania Supports A Budapest - Galicia
A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Ukraine Supports A Budapest - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Venice - Tyrolia
France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy - Belgium (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A London - Wales (*Disbanded*)
A Marseilles Hold
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
Italy:
F Ionian Sea Hold (*Dislodged*)
Russia:
A Belgium Hold
A Galicia - Bohemia
A Moscow - Ukraine (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F North Atlantic Ocean - Liverpool
F North Sea Supports A Belgium
F Norway - Norwegian Sea
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Wales Supports F Yorkshire - London
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow - Ukraine
F Yorkshire - London
Turkey:
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Bulgaria(sc) Supports F Black Sea - Constantinople
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine
RETREATS:
Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or Apulia or Adriatic Sea or Albania or Eastern Mediterranean.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Austria: Build 1
France: Remove 1
Russia: Build 1 |
| dc393 - Spring 1908 Results - kevinokelly (Jan 18, 2012, 12:26 pm) |
The chairman (GM) does not accept the motion to amend the proposal to a RAFT draw, as the gentleman was not granted the floor at the time of his proposal. The FART proposal stands. Please vote YAY or NAY with your Fall orders. A failure to vote counts as a NAY vote (as the result of the vote would not be unanimous amongst all players remaining).
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Timothy Crosby <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com> wrote:
How about RAFT...because if this does not pass i have a feeling i might need one!
tim
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
MESSAGE:
The game picks back up and moves on. There were two Russian retreats with only one spot to go each, so I took the liberty of retreating those units. If Tim would like to pull either of those off the board, please let me know by Thursday morning.
There was a 4-way FART draw proposed. Actually, it was proposed as AFRT, but again I took the liberty to switch those letters around. So, please vote for teh FART draw with your Fall order submissions. Many thanks for your votes and to the proposer.
I know that some of you may be playing in or administering the Winter Blitz. I will try to allow for reasonable deadlines that fall off-cycle with those deadlines so you don't have too many in one day. Let me know if anyone needs extra time during that competition.
DEADLINES:
Fall 1908 - Monday January 23, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Retreats if necssary Tuesday 1/24
Winter 1908 - Wednesday January 25, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
A Budapest - Galicia (*Fails*)
F Greece Supports F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
A Naples Hold
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Rome - Venice
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Serbia - Rumania
A Tyrolia - Bohemia
France:
F Brest - English Channel (*Bounce*)
A Gascony Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A London Hold
A Marseilles Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A Paris - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Paris - Burgundy
F Spain(sc) Supports A Marseilles
Italy:
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
Russia:
A Belgium Supports A Burgundy
A Burgundy Supports A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
F Edinburgh - Yorkshire
F English Channel - Wales
A Galicia Supports A Ukraine (*Cut*)
A Moscow Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Void*)
A Munich Supports A Burgundy
F North Sea - English Channel (*Bounce*)
F Norwegian Sea - North Atlantic Ocean
A Silesia Supports A Galicia
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
A Ukraine Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Dislodged*)
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
F Black Sea Supports A Sevastopol
F Bulgaria(sc) Hold
A Sevastopol Supports A Rumania - Ukraine
A Smyrna - Armenia
RETREATS:
Russia:
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Ukraine - Warsaw[Reply] |
| dc393 - Spring 1908 Results - kevinokelly (Jan 17, 2012, 6:58 pm) |
MESSAGE:
The game picks back up and moves on. There were two Russian retreats with only one spot to go each, so I took the liberty of retreating those units. If Tim would like to pull either of those off the board, please let me know by Thursday morning.
There was a 4-way FART draw proposed. Actually, it was proposed as AFRT, but again I took the liberty to switch those letters around. So, please vote for teh FART draw with your Fall order submissions. Many thanks for your votes and to the proposer.
I know that some of you may be playing in or administering the Winter Blitz. I will try to allow for reasonable deadlines that fall off-cycle with those deadlines so you don't have too many in one day. Let me know if anyone needs extra time during that competition.
DEADLINES:
Fall 1908 - Monday January 23, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Retreats if necssary Tuesday 1/24
Winter 1908 - Wednesday January 25, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
A Budapest - Galicia (*Fails*)
F Greece Supports F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
A Naples Hold
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Rome - Venice
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Serbia - Rumania
A Tyrolia - Bohemia
France:
F Brest - English Channel (*Bounce*)
A Gascony Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A London Hold
A Marseilles Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A Paris - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Paris - Burgundy
F Spain(sc) Supports A Marseilles
Italy:
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
Russia:
A Belgium Supports A Burgundy
A Burgundy Supports A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
F Edinburgh - Yorkshire
F English Channel - Wales
A Galicia Supports A Ukraine (*Cut*)
A Moscow Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Void*)
A Munich Supports A Burgundy
F North Sea - English Channel (*Bounce*)
F Norwegian Sea - North Atlantic Ocean
A Silesia Supports A Galicia
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
A Ukraine Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Dislodged*)
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
F Black Sea Supports A Sevastopol
F Bulgaria(sc) Hold
A Sevastopol Supports A Rumania - Ukraine
A Smyrna - Armenia
RETREATS:
Russia:
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Ukraine - Warsaw[Reply] |
| dc393 - Spring 1908 Results (dc393) kevinokelly Jan 18, 12:26 pm |
The chairman (GM) does not accept the motion to amend the proposal to a RAFT draw, as the gentleman was not granted the floor at the time of his proposal. The FART proposal stands. Please vote YAY or NAY with your Fall orders. A failure to vote counts as a NAY vote (as the result of the vote would not be unanimous amongst all players remaining).
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Timothy Crosby <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com> wrote:
How about RAFT...because if this does not pass i have a feeling i might need one!
tim
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
MESSAGE:
The game picks back up and moves on. There were two Russian retreats with only one spot to go each, so I took the liberty of retreating those units. If Tim would like to pull either of those off the board, please let me know by Thursday morning.
There was a 4-way FART draw proposed. Actually, it was proposed as AFRT, but again I took the liberty to switch those letters around. So, please vote for teh FART draw with your Fall order submissions. Many thanks for your votes and to the proposer.
I know that some of you may be playing in or administering the Winter Blitz. I will try to allow for reasonable deadlines that fall off-cycle with those deadlines so you don't have too many in one day. Let me know if anyone needs extra time during that competition.
DEADLINES:
Fall 1908 - Monday January 23, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
Retreats if necssary Tuesday 1/24
Winter 1908 - Wednesday January 25, 2012 at 22:00GMT (5pm EST)
ORDERS:
Austria:
A Budapest - Galicia (*Fails*)
F Greece Supports F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
A Naples Hold
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Rome - Venice
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Serbia - Rumania
A Tyrolia - Bohemia
France:
F Brest - English Channel (*Bounce*)
A Gascony Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A London Hold
A Marseilles Supports A Paris - Burgundy
A Paris - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Paris - Burgundy
F Spain(sc) Supports A Marseilles
Italy:
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
Russia:
A Belgium Supports A Burgundy
A Burgundy Supports A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
F Edinburgh - Yorkshire
F English Channel - Wales
A Galicia Supports A Ukraine (*Cut*)
A Moscow Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Void*)
A Munich Supports A Burgundy
F North Sea - English Channel (*Bounce*)
F Norwegian Sea - North Atlantic Ocean
A Silesia Supports A Galicia
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
A Ukraine Supports A Rumania - Sevastopol (*Dislodged*)
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
F Black Sea Supports A Sevastopol
F Bulgaria(sc) Hold
A Sevastopol Supports A Rumania - Ukraine
A Smyrna - Armenia
RETREATS:
Russia:
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Ukraine - Warsaw |
| dc393 - Winter 1907 Results - kevinokelly (Jan 12, 2012, 11:27 am) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1907 Results - kevinokelly (Jan 10, 2012, 12:37 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1907 Results - kevinokelly (Dec 21, 2011, 5:08 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1907 Results (dc393) kevinokelly Jan 10, 12:37 pm |
|
| dc393 - Spring 1907 - Results - kevinokelly (Dec 13, 2011, 4:45 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1906 Retreats and Winter 1906 Results - kevinokelly (Dec 06, 2011, 1:29 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1906 Results - kevinokelly (Nov 30, 2011, 5:46 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Spring 1906 Results - kevinokelly (Nov 22, 2011, 11:38 am) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1905 Retreats - kevinokelly (Nov 14, 2011, 4:41 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Fall 1905 Results - kevinokelly (Nov 11, 2011, 4:54 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc393 - Spring 1905 Retreats - kevinokelly (Nov 07, 2011, 2:29 pm) |
[Reply] |
