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DC125 GM EOG - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Hello gang,

Tony's right on the mark on this game - I wish to add
the observation that if a player misses a move, he is
dead in the water in this version.

Apologies for my rapid demise - I had little choice
about leaving.

John

I loved this 8 yrs ago - still do.


--- JAFA <jafainri(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

A Lot of good critism on playablility.

As in the past, the game itself has been tweaked and
was still under scrutiny for it's layout. We finally
hit an undocumented feature where a unit was not
able to move to an adjacent sc. I did make the
appropriate fix but brings home the fact that it is
a developmental game type.

The Iran/Iraq situation. Done purposely as in
Austria/Italy on a standard game.

Cyprus needs adjusting without a doubt.

I would also change the Caspian Sea and make it land
lock only as any fleet there is either stuck or
controls it with no opposition.

I never did like how Tur and Mes up north can block
out anyone with a single unit. Although it reminds
me of Piedmont somewhat.

This game's inent was to be a smaller and faster
game. Somewhat like 4 player South America.
Something that would take 10 seasons to solo. So far
that part is working.

If the interest was there, I would almost try
readjusting. However, it took forever to fill this
game and most of the others if I recall. I don't see
it as a favorite in people's minds.

tt




____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Reply]

DC125 Winter Status - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Doh!..

Iraq:
Build

Israel:
Build
Build
Build

Turkey:
Remove
Remove

[Reply]

DC125 Autumn 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
A Draw Proposal has been asked. Please submit your vote yes or no with Winter orders whether you have any orders or not

Turkish A ARA retreats to MOS.

Winter 2005 and Vote for Draw Due by Tuesday January 5th (at)5PM EDT


DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Fall 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
A Draw Proposal has been asked. Please submit your vote yes or no for Winter orders whether you have any orders or not


Iran:
A TUR - MES (*Fails*)

Iraq:
A ARM Supports A AZE - GEO
A AZE - GEO
A CHE - KRA (*Fails*)
A DAG Supports A CHE - KRA
A KUR - ARA (*Fails*)
A MES Hold
A MOS - BAG
F PER Hold
A TAB - KIR

Israel:
F AEG Supports F SAL - IST
A GOL - HOM
A HOM - KHU
F IST - ANK
A KON Supports F IST - ANK
A MAL - ARA
F RED Hold
A ROM - ODE
F SAL - IST
A TRA Supports A MAL - ARA

Russia:
A VOL, no move received

Turkey:
A ARA Supports A GEO - ARM (*Dislodged*)
F BLA Supports A KRA
A GEO - ARM (*Disbanded*)
A KRA Supports F PER - RED (*Fails*)

Turkish A ARA can retreat to MOS.


Autumn 2005 Due by Monday January 4th (at)5PM EDT

DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Update - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Reminder that orders for Fall 2005 is due tomorrow Friday at 5PM EDT

[Reply]

DC125 Summer 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Turkey:
A TRA - ARA


Fall 2005 Due by Friday February 1st (at)5PM EDT



DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Spring 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Ooooh.. You Wascally Wabbit!!

(This is going to hurt...)

Roadkill Trout

On Jan 26, 2008 6:28 AM, JAFA <jafainri(at)hotmail.com ([email]jafainri(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Iran:
A TUR - MES (*Fails*)

Iraq:
A AZE - DAG
A CHE Supports A AZE - DAG
A ELB - AZE
A KIR - TAB
A KUR Supports A TAB - ARM
A MES Hold
A MOS Hold
F PER Hold
A TAB - ARM

Israel:
A ADA - MAL
F ATH - SAL
F CMED - AEG
A HAI - GOL
F IZM - IST
A KHU - HOM
A KON Supports A MAL - TRA
A MAL - TRA
F RED Hold
A SER - ROM

Russia:
F KRA, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A VOL, no move received

Turkey:
F BLA Supports A DAG - KRA
A DAG - KRA
A GEO Supports A DAG - KRA
A TRA Supports A GEO (*Dislodged*)

Russian F KRA no moves received, disbanded.
Turkish A TRA can retreat to ARA or ANK.

Deadline for Summer 2005 is Monday 1/28 (at)5PM EDT



DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])


[Reply]

DC125 Spring 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Iran:
A TUR - MES (*Fails*)

Iraq:
A AZE - DAG
A CHE Supports A AZE - DAG
A ELB - AZE
A KIR - TAB
A KUR Supports A TAB - ARM
A MES Hold
A MOS Hold
F PER Hold
A TAB - ARM

Israel:
A ADA - MAL
F ATH - SAL
F CMED - AEG
A HAI - GOL
F IZM - IST
A KHU - HOM
A KON Supports A MAL - TRA
A MAL - TRA
F RED Hold
A SER - ROM

Russia:
F KRA, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A VOL, no move received

Turkey:
F BLA Supports A DAG - KRA
A DAG - KRA
A GEO Supports A DAG - KRA
A TRA Supports A GEO (*Dislodged*)

Russian F KRA no moves received, disbanded.
Turkish A TRA can retreat to ARA or ANK.

Deadline for Summer 2005 is Monday 1/28 (at)5PM EDT



DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Update - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Reminder orders are due Friday (at)5PM EDT if you haven't received a rec'd from me

[Reply]

DC125 Winter 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Iraq:
Build A KIR

Israel:
Build A HAI

Turkey:
Remove F IST


Spring 2005 orders are due Friday 25th (at)5PM EDT


Ownership:
Iran: TUR.
Iraq: AZE, BAG, BAS, KHZ, KIR, KUW, SHI, TAB, TEH.
Israel: ADA, ATH, CYP, DAM, EGY, ELA, HAI, LEB, SER, TAV.
Russia: KRA, VOL.
Turkey: ANK, GEO, IST, ODE.

Adjustments:
Iran: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Iraq: Supp 9 Unit 9 Build 0
Israel: Supp 10 Unit 10 Build 0
Russia: Supp 2 Unit 2 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0


DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Autumn 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Turkey:
A AZE - DAG


Winter 2004 Due by Monday January 21st (at)5PM EDT

Iraq:
Build

Israel:
Build

Turkey:
Remove


DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Fall 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Iran:
A TUR - MES (*Fails*)

Iraq:
A CHE - GEO (*Fails*)
A ELB - AZE
A KUR - ARM (*Bounce*)
A MES Hold
A MOS Hold
F PER Hold
A TAB Supports A ELB - AZE
A TEH - ELB

Israel:
A ADA - KON
F CMED - ATH
F EMED - CMED
A HOM - KHU
F IZM, no move received
A KHU - ADA
A MAL Supports A ADA - KON
F RED Hold
A SAL - SER

Russia:
F KRA, no move received
A VOL, no move received

Turkey:
F AEG - IST
A AZE Supports A TRA - ARM (*Dislodged*)
A GEO - CHE (*Fails*)
F IST - BLA
A TRA - ARM (*Bounce*)

Turkish A AZE can retreat to DAG.

Autumn 2004 Due by Monday January 21st (at)5PM EDT

DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Fall 2004 Update - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
reminder orders are due Friday 18th (at)5PM EDT

[Reply]

DC125 Summer 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Iran:
A MES - TUR

Deadline for Fall 2004 is Friday 1/18 (at)5PM EDT

[Reply]

DC125 Spring 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Glitch in adjudication. F GOI-IZM does succeed
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSurprisedffice:smarttags" />
Iraq:
A DAG - CHE
A ISF - ELB
A KIR - KUR
A MOS Supports A KIR - KUR
F PER Hold
A SHI - MES
A TAB Supports A ISF - ELB
A TEH Supports A SHI - MES<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSurprisedfficeSurprisedffice" />

Israel:
A ADA Supports A KHU - MAL
A ALE - KHU
A ATH - SAL
F CMED Supports F GOI - IZM
F GOI - IZM
F HAI - EMED
A HOM Supports A ALE - KHU
A KHU - MAL
F RED Hold



Russia:
F KRA, no move received
A VOL, no move received



Turkey:
F ANK - IST
A AZE Supports A GEO
A GEO Supports A AZE
F IZM - AEG
A MAL - TRA



Iranian A MES can retreat to TUR.



Deadline for Summer 2003 is Sunday 1/13 (at)5PM EDT

[Reply]

DC125 Spring 2004 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Iran:
A MES Hold (*Dislodged*)

Iraq:
A DAG - CHE
A ISF - ELB
A KIR - KUR
A MOS Supports A KIR - KUR
F PER Hold
A SHI - MES
A TAB Supports A ISF - ELB
A TEH Supports A SHI - MES

Israel:
A ADA Supports A KHU - MAL
A ALE - KHU
A ATH - SAL
F CMED Supports F GOI - IZM
F GOI - IZM (*Fails*)
F HAI - EMED
A HOM Supports A ALE - KHU
A KHU - MAL
F RED Hold

Russia:
F KRA, no move received
A VOL, no move received

Turkey:
F ANK - IST
A AZE Supports A GEO
A GEO Supports A AZE
F IZM - AEG
A MAL - TRA

Iranian A MES can retreat to TUR.

Deadline for Summer 2003 is Sunday 1/13 (at)5PM EDT



DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Winter 2005 - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Vote to Draw has been defeated. The Battle Continues. Heads up on new deadline. Monday

Iraq:
Build A BAS

Israel:
Build A HAI
Build A TAV
Build A ELA

Turkey:
Remove F BLA
Remove A MOS



Spring 2006 orders are due Monday 11th (at)5PM EDT


Ownership:
Iran: TUR.
Iraq: AZE, BAG, BAS, GEO, KHZ, KIR, KUW, SHI, TAB, TEH.
Israel: ADA, ANK, ATH, CYP, DAM, EGY, ELA, HAI, IST, LEB,
ODE, SER, TAV.
Russia: VOL.
Turkey: KRA.


Adjustments:
Iran: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Iraq: Supp 10 Unit 10 Build 0
Israel: Supp 13 Unit 13 Build 0
Russia: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0



DC125 ROSTER:
Iran: Raybrucea(at)aol.com ([email]Raybrucea(at)aol.com[/email])
Iraq: jkudlick(at)gmail.com ([email]jkudlick(at)gmail.com[/email])
Israel: mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
Russia: flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com ([email]flowerpet56(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])

[Reply]

DC125 Spring 2006 Update - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Reminder that orders are due Tomorrow Monday (at)5PM EDT

[Reply]

DC125 - Trouts Opinion - Map Notes - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
In a message dated 2/22/2008 10:48:39 AM Central Standard Time, former.trout(at)gmail.com writes:

SUGGESTION: Redraw the middle provinces to reduce seperation between Iraq and Israel.



Or add Saudi as a sixth player, perhaps Egypt as a seventh.

Ray



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

[Reply]

DC125 GM EOG - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
A Lot of good critism on playablility.

As in the past, the game itself has been tweaked and was still under scrutiny for it's layout. We finally hit an undocumented feature where a unit was not able to move to an adjacent sc. I did make the appropriate fix but brings home the fact that it is a developmental game type.

The Iran/Iraq situation. Done purposely as in Austria/Italy on a standard game.

Cyprus needs adjusting without a doubt.

I would also change the Caspian Sea and make it land lock only as any fleet there is either stuck or controls it with no opposition.

I never did like how Tur and Mes up north can block out anyone with a single unit. Although it reminds me of Piedmont somewhat.

This game's inent was to be a smaller and faster game. Somewhat like 4 player South America. Something that would take 10 seasons to solo. So far that part is working.

If the interest was there, I would almost try readjusting. However, it took forever to fill this game and most of the others if I recall. I don't see it as a favorite in people's minds.

tt

[Reply]

DC125 Iraq EOG - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
I'll start out with a congratulations to Sims for his victory and thanks to all for a well played game. Now on to some analysis.

When I found out that I would be Iraq and studied my situation, I realized the inequities of the map. I figured that either one of three things would happen: I would fight with Iran and win OR I would fight against Iran and Israel and face a precarious situation OR I would find some sort of common ground with Iran and make my way to Israel.

I threw out offers to both Iran and Israel, and waited to see responses. A lot of talking occurred prior to the first season and I was concerned of the potential that Israel and Iran would attack me. I was also very concerned about the Russia situation. If John focused only on Trout, then I would really be up the creek. I figured that my best shot was to offer Israel Damascus and concentrate on Iran with the hope that Sims would agree to move north. I posed offers to John but he was a bit out of this game and ultimately CDed.

When things worked out with Israel, it was a hop skip and jump to Tehran (no offense to Ray). The map is extremely unfavorable to Iran and Turkey. I posed offers to Trout to ignore Ray and me and simply focus on Israel. Trouts sacrifice of a build in Fall 2002 to help Ray was a major decision point for Turkey. While things may not have ended much differently for Trout had he neglected support for Iran, he would have been in better shape with regards to unit numbers. He might have been able to hold ADA.

Once we were arriving near EOG, I realized that I was outmatched in the north by Sims and was becoming increasingly concerned with his movements. I figured that the South and middle were settled and that I could force a draw if Sims did not intend to keep our original plan. I simply needed 4 units in the North. I had three in the North and Trout was down to 1 in Krakow. I offered him twice the opportunity to draw the game with me to stop what I believed was Sims plan to solo. He refused in what I believe was spite or indifference to Sims solo. Then, he helped Sims along in the solo. A few turns later, EOG.

Now for recommendations:

I agree that the Arabian Desert should be opened up and turned into Saudi Arabia. However, I do not feel that the map itself should be expanded. There is more than enough room to place 5 SCs in the desert plus a number of empty spots. I think Saudi Arabia should be closer to Israel than Iraq. Iran and Iraq are already on top of each other and Israel is pretty much isolated with a ton of SCs around it.

I do not agree with adding Egypt to the map or the full Mediterranean to the Map. At that point you almost have to add in Greece, Italy, etc and then its no longer a MIDEAST map.

In terms of units, BAS and TEH should both be armies. I do not think that Iran should have an army in AZE. Iran should start with an Army in either ELB or ISF instead.

In terms of SCs, there are too few on the map. I am not advocating turning every spot into an SC, but the number of open SCs to start the game in the North is 4. This pales in comparison to the 7 in the South. If UZB and KAZ were partitioned, something could be added there. An SC in ARM or partitioning TRA into two countries and placing an SC in Eastern TRA would be meaningful. An SC in CRE might help.

Finally, the situation with CYP should be fixed. Either by adding more bodies of water or by shifting the bodies of water so that two hit CYP.

Good Luck and thanks for a fun game.

-Jon

[Reply]

DC125 - Trouts Opinion - Map Notes - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
The bounds of these changes are limitless… I could see good cause for a 6th and 7th player… Saudi Arabia and Egypt. In terms of Jihad, certainly they are two of the major players in the theater. This would involve extending the Africa coast to include centers like Egypt, Libya, Ethiopia, Somalia, and the ones you listed below for the Arab coast. Given all the waterways canals, etc, it has the potential to be a great map.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:48 AM
To: DC125 Forums
Cc: JAFA; Michael Sims; Jonathan Kudlick; Bruce Ray
Subject: DC125 - Trouts Opinion - Map Notes


Heya guys,

Some map notes - purely based on my own selfish opinion.

1. With the Arabian Desert as an impassible space, the Iraq / Israel truce is almost an inevitability. There is no incentive for the two to attack each other, as easier centers lie in the opposite direction for both nations. With a blue fleet in the Persian Gulf and a green in the Red Sea then naval movement is completely blocked in either direction. This renders the whole southern edge of the map as dead-space, and creates a strip of neutral provinces right up the middle that serve as a natural DMZ.

My question is that since this variant is based in modern times, what is the oil-rich Arabian peninsula doing out of the mix? It should be in play...

SUGGESTION: Add the Saudi Arabian Peninsula to the map and five new provinces:
- Saudi Arabia (supply center)
- Oman (supply center)
- Qatar
- United Arab Emirates
- Yemen (supply center)

Add at least four new water zones:
- Horn of Africa
- Gulf of Aden
- Arabian Sea
- Indian Ocean

This will drastically open up play on the southern edge and give Israel and the Eastern powers far more of an incentive to conflict with each other.


2. The island of Cyprus. Right now it is bordered by only one water zone and therefore a unit there cannot be dislodged. In addition, unless the Israeli player is an idiot he will win, hands down, in any race between him and Turkey to get there first.

SUGGESTION: - Move the East Med / GOI water border north so that it contacts Cyprus.
- Start Turkey off with a fleet in Adana

3. The Iranian position is possible weaker to start out with than even the Turkish one. None of Iran's home centers can mutually support each other - which is a MAJOR disadvantage if the chips are down and the position under-fire.

SUGGESTION: - Connect Aze and Teh along the Caspian Sea

4. The distance between Iraq and Israel. Right now, all other neighbouring nations are seperated by only one or two spaces - in some cases the home centers even border on each other. However, Iraq and Israel have three or four spaces between their home centers. Once again, this creates a situation where it makes no sense for one to attack the other - the other player would see such an attack coming a mile away

SUGGESTION: Redraw the middle provinces to reduce seperation between Iraq and Israel.

I have more thoughts, of course, but those are the four that come to mind first.. Cheers,

Trout

[Reply]

DC125 - Israeli EOG - Hunting Season - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Yeah I know what you mean… My wording was poorly phrased, I didn’t mean to imply you intended to outright throw it. Sorry there. I perceived it as a technique you were using to get us to stab each other… by the threat of the solo, or more likely, by the leaking of information that one or the other intended to take you up on it… and once we did, I figured you’d jump right back into the game. Thus neither of us took you up on it, which meant you had to keep offering it further and further, until eventually it ended up how it did. At no point did I think you intended the result to actually be the solo.
-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:08 AM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: DC125 Forums; JAFA; Bruce Ray; Jonathan Kudlick
Subject: Re: DC125 - Israeli EOG - Hunting Season


[quote:d3148e7d5c]I figured this was all just banter that he planned to pass back and forth, to get Jon and I to war somehow, but it turned out to be just an offer to throw a win!

[/quote:d3148e7d5c]
Ouch. Feel I have to respond to that.

It was a last desperate ploy to get Jon to attack you, Mike. I could not defend against both of you. So I did what I could to convince Jon that unless he opened a southern front with you, that you would solo the game. I guess I failed to convince him...

If at any time Jon had taken the battle to you, you would have found me back in the line, trying to claw back those centers...

T.

[Reply]

DC125 - Israeli EOG - Hunting Season - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)

[quote:b3a0eeedbf]I figured this was all just banter that he planned to pass back and forth, to get Jon and I to war somehow, but it turned out to be just an offer to throw a win!

[/quote:b3a0eeedbf]
Ouch. Feel I have to respond to that.

It was a last desperate ploy to get Jon to attack you, Mike. I could not defend against both of you. So I did what I could to convince Jon that unless he opened a southern front with you, that you would solo the game. I guess I failed to convince him...

If at any time Jon had taken the battle to you, you would have found me back in the line, trying to claw back those centers...

T.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


Ok, ok I'll post an EOG.
It started off great, I got the country Ray wanted, and that made for a fun start.

I'm not sure what you said to Jon, Ray, but he was intent on attacking you right off the bat. I mean I know you're not the most likable but you got hammered here from the start, and were completely picked off by one player – in a matter of a few years reduced to that one safe center. That really scared me, cuz Jon got on the fast track to a lot of centers, a lot of armies, and nowhere for them to go but across that barren wasteland in the middle toward me. So I took that push north by Jon, and agreed to push north myself, and we had a great alliance from the start. I really thought he was going to win tho, with Ray just collapsing, and Trout putting up a fight.

About then when I was writing Jon about how I thought he was going to outpace me and what we could do about it, Trout started this kick about trying to break us up, and offering to throw the solo one way or the other. I figured this was all just banter that he planned to pass back and forth, to get Jon and I to war somehow, but it turned out to be just an offer to throw a win! Trout fell back turn by turn, throwing all east with awesome futility as I moved into center after center. This quickly turned the tides, and whereas Jon had the early lead in growth, Trout made sure that turned around my way.

At this point, I think Jon had to approach me and discuss the recent events, and push for a balanced distribution of the Turkish spoils… but around this crucial time, Jon took a trip to Europe, was out of action a few years, for doing anything much more than continuing our pushes north. This let the game go on like this for a good couple years with little to no need for me to even address my outpacing of Jon, cuz he wasn't around to ask for it. Then it got to a point of snowballing, and we started to talk about it toward the end, a bit too late as I was around that north shore of the Black Sea, a place I figured I had to be in if I was to win it.

I guess I started to think about getting more than a draw about the time that Trout disbanded a unit in Turkey that let me have uncontested entrance to the Black Sea… his last choke point opened up, I figured this was the beginning of a lot of options. It was also my gateway to Geo and Kra, two potential centers I could maybe use as the 14th.

I agree this map has tons of potential, and I'd love to see it developed a bit further. In particular those bits from Trout about adding the Arabian Peninsula seem great – those are such regionally valuable areas, it seems appropriate to include them in this game. Also Cyprus has to be fixed. I gave up Lebanon to get that center cuz I knew it guaranteed me a survival. There shouldn't be a single-access space on any map. Another map problem is the Iran-Iraq wars… they start nice and close, something I like… but one of Iran's units are trapped in the Caspian Sea, unable to play, while all 3 Iraqi units can hit Iran. This gives Iraq a 3-2 edge over Iran, and there isn't much Israel can even do to affect it – I was clearly better off playing on the Lebanon / Cyprus front with Trout. Throw an active Russia in the mix, and things might be even worse for Iran. Of course one can argue that disadvantage simply requires more action from the other players to prevent Iraq crushing Iran, and that's valid in any unbalanced Diplomacy game.

As for overall balance – this game has been played 5 times, with 4 solo victories by Iran, Iraq, Russia, and Israel and a 4-way draw. Therefore one cannot conclude that Israel has some unreasonable edge, as both Iran and Iraq have managed wins, plus Russia. Only power not to win yet is the "lame duck". Smile Also Iran may not be inherently disadvantaged, as Iran has the highest performance score, tied with Israel. Iraq, with all their advantage over Iran, has been eliminated twice in 5 games. Therefore something is working as the game is producing nicely varied results: http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Jihad

-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:10 AM
To: DC125 Forums
Cc: JAFA; Michael Sims; Bruce Ray; Jonathan Kudlick
Subject: DC125 - Turkish EOG - One Lucky Duck


Heya guys,

Figured I'd dive into the water here first with an EOG. My congratulations to Mike for the solo win... Although for me at least the writing was on the walls from the end of the first game year. As for myself, somehow I eked out a survival in this one which I humbly consider a small victory all in itself.

I think my first thoughts when I saw that I was Turkey and fully looked at the map was something along the lines of 'Damn am I screwed'. Sandwiched between Israel and Russia as it is, Turkey is very much the lame duck of this board. In fact, I can say with confidence that the only reason I managed to hang around till the endgame was because Russia went into CD and I had no northern front to contend with.

Before I get into map notes - strategy. This game was all about Israeli containment for me - and the result speaks all for itself. Until the last couple of turns, I threw everything I had at Mike and he just kept coming. Without assistance from Iraq to assist my efforts, Mike overpowered me at every turn. I managed to beat him to Lebanon early on, but knew that I wouldn't be able to hold it. After that, it was just a matter of the long retreat...

It was fairly clear from early on that Mike and Jon had formed an alliance - both agreeing to move north and not disturb the efforts of each other. Both Ray and I tried all we could to disrupt that - even in the end, out of desperation, telling them that I was going to throw the game to one or the other. At the very end, Jon suggested that he would hold my last unit in place to prevent Sims from taking it - but it was too little too late at that point and I had already agreed to help Mike win.

As frustrating as the game was though sometimes, I have to say that it was an interesting time. The variant has quite a bit of potential - if the map is tweaked in the right places I would love to be involved in the next playtest. Thanks to Tony for GMing, Jon and Mike for providing such brilliant adversaries, and Ray for being the guy on the other end of the line that I wrote to and said 'Well what the hell do we do now?'...

Cheers guys,

Trout

[Reply]

DC125 - Israeli EOG - Hunting Season - test_gm   (Sep 13, 2007, 12:00 am)
Ok, ok I’ll post an EOG.
It started off great, I got the country Ray wanted, and that made for a fun start.

I’m not sure what you said to Jon, Ray, but he was intent on attacking you right off the bat. I mean I know you’re not the most likable but you got hammered here from the start, and were completely picked off by one player – in a matter of a few years reduced to that one safe center. That really scared me, cuz Jon got on the fast track to a lot of centers, a lot of armies, and nowhere for them to go but across that barren wasteland in the middle toward me. So I took that push north by Jon, and agreed to push north myself, and we had a great alliance from the start. I really thought he was going to win tho, with Ray just collapsing, and Trout putting up a fight.

About then when I was writing Jon about how I thought he was going to outpace me and what we could do about it, Trout started this kick about trying to break us up, and offering to throw the solo one way or the other. I figured this was all just banter that he planned to pass back and forth, to get Jon and I to war somehow, but it turned out to be just an offer to throw a win! Trout fell back turn by turn, throwing all east with awesome futility as I moved into center after center. This quickly turned the tides, and whereas Jon had the early lead in growth, Trout made sure that turned around my way.

At this point, I think Jon had to approach me and discuss the recent events, and push for a balanced distribution of the Turkish spoils… but around this crucial time, Jon took a trip to Europe, was out of action a few years, for doing anything much more than continuing our pushes north. This let the game go on like this for a good couple years with little to no need for me to even address my outpacing of Jon, cuz he wasn’t around to ask for it. Then it got to a point of snowballing, and we started to talk about it toward the end, a bit too late as I was around that north shore of the Black Sea, a place I figured I had to be in if I was to win it.

I guess I started to think about getting more than a draw about the time that Trout disbanded a unit in Turkey that let me have uncontested entrance to the Black Sea… his last choke point opened up, I figured this was the beginning of a lot of options. It was also my gateway to Geo and Kra, two potential centers I could maybe use as the 14th.

I agree this map has tons of potential, and I’d love to see it developed a bit further. In particular those bits from Trout about adding the Arabian Peninsula seem great – those are such regionally valuable areas, it seems appropriate to include them in this game. Also Cyprus has to be fixed. I gave up Lebanon to get that center cuz I knew it guaranteed me a survival. There shouldn’t be a single-access space on any map. Another map problem is the Iran-Iraq wars… they start nice and close, something I like… but one of Iran’s units are trapped in the Caspian Sea, unable to play, while all 3 Iraqi units can hit Iran. This gives Iraq a 3-2 edge over Iran, and there isn’t much Israel can even do to affect it – I was clearly better off playing on the Lebanon / Cyprus front with Trout. Throw an active Russia in the mix, and things might be even worse for Iran. Of course one can argue that disadvantage simply requires more action from the other players to prevent Iraq crushing Iran, and that’s valid in any unbalanced Diplomacy game.

As for overall balance – this game has been played 5 times, with 4 solo victories by Iran, Iraq, Russia, and Israel and a 4-way draw. Therefore one cannot conclude that Israel has some unreasonable edge, as both Iran and Iraq have managed wins, plus Russia. Only power not to win yet is the “lame duck”. Smile Also Iran may not be inherently disadvantaged, as Iran has the highest performance score, tied with Israel. Iraq, with all their advantage over Iran, has been eliminated twice in 5 games. Therefore something is working as the game is producing nicely varied results: http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Jihad

-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:10 AM
To: DC125 Forums
Cc: JAFA; Michael Sims; Bruce Ray; Jonathan Kudlick
Subject: DC125 - Turkish EOG - One Lucky Duck


Heya guys,

Figured I'd dive into the water here first with an EOG. My congratulations to Mike for the solo win... Although for me at least the writing was on the walls from the end of the first game year. As for myself, somehow I eked out a survival in this one which I humbly consider a small victory all in itself.

I think my first thoughts when I saw that I was Turkey and fully looked at the map was something along the lines of 'Damn am I screwed'. Sandwiched between Israel and Russia as it is, Turkey is very much the lame duck of this board. In fact, I can say with confidence that the only reason I managed to hang around till the endgame was because Russia went into CD and I had no northern front to contend with.

Before I get into map notes - strategy. This game was all about Israeli containment for me - and the result speaks all for itself. Until the last couple of turns, I threw everything I had at Mike and he just kept coming. Without assistance from Iraq to assist my efforts, Mike overpowered me at every turn. I managed to beat him to Lebanon early on, but knew that I wouldn't be able to hold it. After that, it was just a matter of the long retreat...

It was fairly clear from early on that Mike and Jon had formed an alliance - both agreeing to move north and not disturb the efforts of each other. Both Ray and I tried all we could to disrupt that - even in the end, out of desperation, telling them that I was going to throw the game to one or the other. At the very end, Jon suggested that he would hold my last unit in place to prevent Sims from taking it - but it was too little too late at that point and I had already agreed to help Mike win.

As frustrating as the game was though sometimes, I have to say that it was an interesting time. The variant has quite a bit of potential - if the map is tweaked in the right places I would love to be involved in the next playtest. Thanks to Tony for GMing, Jon and Mike for providing such brilliant adversaries, and Ray for being the guy on the other end of the line that I wrote to and said 'Well what the hell do we do now?'...

Cheers guys,

Trout

[Reply]

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