| PLEASE SOME GM START A YOUNGSTOWN GAME - lilybeau (Jan 25, 2010, 9:20 pm) |
| Lets at least see whether anyone but me would sign up...1897 doesn't seem too popular... [Reply] |
| Unknown - bielf11 (Jan 20, 2010, 2:30 pm) |
In addition to the programs Mike mentioned you could use GIMP. Contrary to most of the other programs this is free, opensource and platform independent. While it does offer very sophisticated tools.
I have used it for my variant of Viking and Scorched Earth. As for some of the Fog of War games.
Frank[Reply] |
| Unknown - FuzzyLogic (Jan 20, 2010, 12:50 pm) |
Hi,
This site...
http://realpolitik.sourceforge.net/Variant_Creation.html
..will tell you everything you need to know technically, on building a Realpolitik Variant.
For designing the map, I would suggest you use an art program that supports layers. Illustrator, Corel, Paint Shop, most of them support such, but MS Paint does not. I use an old version of Paint Shop Pro which works just fine.
Layers you'll need to be able to turn on / off...
Base layer (transparent)
White layer (white)
Borders layer (black lines making up the country borders)
Tan and Blue (shade countries tan, waters blue)
Texts (any flavor text or space names)
Artwork (any original art in the frame, etc)
This way you can turn on just the white and black layers (possibly text layers too, to exclude text from the shading in RP) to save a black-and-white borders image, which is the first thing you need to make an RP variant. Then later you can turn on the colors, texts, and artwork to save the colorful bmp that you'll need as the last step. When you have those layers and you can export a good b/w image, then you can start the tedious RP process of defining the map and region files, per the above link.
Many folks have made variants here, so just ask any questions and I'm sure you'll get feedback.
-mike[Reply] |
| Variant Creation - midnightgreen (Jan 20, 2010, 9:27 am) |
Hello Everyone,
I'm new to the site but have been playing diplomacy for a few years. I'm particularly interested in creating my own variants. I've got a few that I've got a map laid out for, but I'm basically computer-illiterate and so I don't know how to effectively draw the map and create the realworld files needed. Could anyone help me out or at least point me in the right direction? Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks.[Reply] |
| Unknown (Variants) FuzzyLogic Jan 20, 12:50 pm |
Hi,
This site...
http://realpolitik.sourceforge.net/Variant_Creation.html
..will tell you everything you need to know technically, on building a Realpolitik Variant.
For designing the map, I would suggest you use an art program that supports layers. Illustrator, Corel, Paint Shop, most of them support such, but MS Paint does not. I use an old version of Paint Shop Pro which works just fine.
Layers you'll need to be able to turn on / off...
Base layer (transparent)
White layer (white)
Borders layer (black lines making up the country borders)
Tan and Blue (shade countries tan, waters blue)
Texts (any flavor text or space names)
Artwork (any original art in the frame, etc)
This way you can turn on just the white and black layers (possibly text layers too, to exclude text from the shading in RP) to save a black-and-white borders image, which is the first thing you need to make an RP variant. Then later you can turn on the colors, texts, and artwork to save the colorful bmp that you'll need as the last step. When you have those layers and you can export a good b/w image, then you can start the tedious RP process of defining the map and region files, per the above link.
Many folks have made variants here, so just ask any questions and I'm sure you'll get feedback.
-mike |
| Unknown (Variants) bielf11 Jan 20, 02:30 pm |
In addition to the programs Mike mentioned you could use GIMP. Contrary to most of the other programs this is free, opensource and platform independent. While it does offer very sophisticated tools.
I have used it for my variant of Viking and Scorched Earth. As for some of the Fog of War games.
Frank |
| Haven map change - FuzzyLogic (Jan 11, 2010, 1:28 pm) |
www.dipwiki.com?title=Haven
You've all played my Haven map... I've been considering some changes for the 3rd playtest, and was looking for input on the concept...
1) Making Spiral Castle adjacent to Ivory Tower (the two circular tower spaces linked)... and possibly, making one or both of these also adjacent to Two Towers (by the Hobbits). i.e. atop all the wizards towers are magical portals that can link you to the other towers. (this was suggested by a player)
2) Making Zhentil Keep adjacent to Dargaard Keep, presumably by a hatch in the floor / secret passage. Right now, Dargaard Keep starts right in the center of 5 powers, none of which can reach it with a land unit in 01, but three of which can reach it with a fleet, creating a dead zone / negotiation point. If you could move from that space (armies only) directly to Zhentil Keep, would that be too strong? Does that give the northwestern powers too much influence of the central island?
3) A link from Devils Canyon to Ice Reach.
These are designed to facilitate units moving around the map. Would it be better? Not needed?
Keep in mind the game was designed to be a world-style variant in that it supports 19 players, but avoid the typical large-variant-syndrome of the game bogging down midway into massive armies that are all stuck in their own worlds with relatively little interaction.
Ideas welcome,
-mike[Reply] |
| Haven map change (Variants) Krazick Dec 31, 07:34 am |
Mike,
Prowling around the forum, and I found your note from January 2010 (almost a year back) about possible changes to the Haven Map. And you make a point that Dargaard Keep is in the middle of 5 powers, but that none of which can reach it with a land unit in 01 --
This is not quite true. I see two ways to get an Army there in Fall 01:
1. Rogue Fleet Ashan -> Pool of Radiance, Turn 2 Fleet Pool Radiance convoy Convoy Rogue Army to Dargaard Keep (from Moominvally/The Silver City/Ashan - take your pick).
2. Magi Fleet Ergoth -> ESS, Turn 2 Fleet ESS Convoy Undead Army to Dargaard Keep from either Evergoth or Ishtar.
The second is less likely, since it requires cooperation between players.
Having only studied the games that have been played so far, and starting up in DC354, I can't say I am much of an authority on these suggestions. But I would feel a link for Devils Canyon to Ice Reach provides a back door into both the north and south -- Requires at least one unit to sit and defend... I would say something like:
Break Devils Canyon into to regions (East/West), and place two connections (one from Ice Reach, other from Cathal to each.
This would require more coordinated assaults and defense... and less "Edges" to have at anyone's back.
Krazick |
| Haven map change (Variants) laxrulz777 Jan 06, 03:22 pm |
I'm playing in the newest Haven game (go Barbarians!). The Icereach to Devil's Canyon link strikes me as a really basic stalemate line. One unit holds it easily. It ends up having a weird dynamic where the Knights are trying to ally with whoever DOESN'T hold Devil's Canyon and whoever holds Devil's Canyon is trying to ally with the Barbarians/Centaurs. So it kind of encourages a 2v2 type arrangement... Not necessarily a good or bad thing but something to think about.
If you REALLY wanted to encourage that interaction, you could make Icereach and Devil's Canyon the same zone (taking it from simple stalemate line to nearly undefendable.
The other ideas are interesting, but if you do that, it's probably time to clean up the map a little. It's already a bit confusing and adding some sort of north south wrapping along with location specific links might make some peoples heads pop. I think it would be a bit more interesting if the location links were NOT SCs... creating a strategic item to fight over that isn't an SC would be an interesting dynamic.
Also, mages can double convoy (SAB->WSS->ESS-KEE). Also unlikely but technically possible (and probably slightly more likely then the mage and undead player collaborating in Y1. |
| Haven map change (Variants) laxrulz777 Jan 06, 03:22 pm |
I'm playing in the newest Haven game (go Barbarians!). The Icereach to Devil's Canyon link strikes me as a really basic stalemate line. One unit holds it easily. It ends up having a weird dynamic where the Knights are trying to ally with whoever DOESN'T hold Devil's Canyon and whoever holds Devil's Canyon is trying to ally with the Barbarians/Centaurs. So it kind of encourages a 2v2 type arrangement... Not necessarily a good or bad thing but something to think about.
If you REALLY wanted to encourage that interaction, you could make Icereach and Devil's Canyon the same zone (taking it from simple stalemate line to nearly undefendable.
The other ideas are interesting, but if you do that, it's probably time to clean up the map a little. It's already a bit confusing and adding some sort of north south wrapping along with location specific links might make some peoples heads pop. I think it would be a bit more interesting if the location links were NOT SCs... creating a strategic item to fight over that isn't an SC would be an interesting dynamic.
Also, mages can double convoy (SAB->WSS->ESS-KEE). Also unlikely but technically possible (and probably slightly more likely then the mage and undead player collaborating in Y1. |
| Haven map change (Variants) laxrulz777 Jan 07, 10:41 am |
What I see as the two changes needed (note, this is slightly from a Barbarian point of view but I think I'm being appropriately "neutral"
I would make two slight tweaks to the map
1) The Barbarians biggest problem is that they are essentially FORCED to telegraph their moves. Every move out of their starting centers is unambiguous and it greatly reduces their ability to engage in diplomacy. While this may be flavorful, it is greatly exaggerated and not really in keeping with the spirit of the game. To this end, I would "massage" Eridu somewhat (possibly removing it altogether). Pendarin woods or Andarien Plains should be made to touch Gwynir (possibly both?). That gives the Barbarians some room for options and negotiations.
2) I think natural relations between the Fairies and their neighbors are too friendly. The Fairies have a very, very good chance of getting three builds (it would really take a concerted Knight/Rogue effort to keep them even to 1 build... and that's only doable if the Rogue sacrifices any hope of two builds by being willing to bounce in Gurgi and Dimmsdale). I considered the possibility of making Grimheim touch Gurgi. But this seems too god. A better choice might just be to make Daisy Meadows an SC. Something to create some friction between the two would be nice. Currently, only Dimmsdale does this but it's removed from both Fairy and Rogue home SCs so it's of limited use in that regard. The other possibility is to stretch WMO to touch Dimmsdale and switch Julianthes and Dimmsdale making Dimmsdale an Eternal Build Center. This would draw both the Dwarves and the Nomads in (This has the added benefit of making churning Rock not adjacent to two eternal build centers. This might make the Fairies TOO weak, however. |
| Haven map change (Variants) orathaic Jan 15, 09:50 pm |
I saw a request to inform Michael sims if Haven had spread beyond dip corp, so i might present: http://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=51
I'm pretty sure there's a bit of a division between web-client diplomacy players an older pbem crowd, but here is an implementation.
As it stands i don't think it has any special rules, just the basic (3d) geography, and eternal builds.... |
| Unknown - david_e_cohen (Jan 03, 2010, 2:07 pm) |
Hello Charles. In response to your various comments and questions:
Busy goes in cycles, I guess, and is dependent upon the dedication and involvement of those who run things in each group. Yes, people have shifted away from the yahoogroup based forums, but those are not the only ones gone quiet. Redscape is a lot slower than it used to be, for example, and so is judgeland.
Certainly the Powers are further apart, on average, than in Standard and there are no Venice-Trieste adjacencies, but there is a pretty good amount of interaction in the first year anyway, and afterwards, well, the armies and fleets get where they are going fast enough! I don't know that stabs are earlier, or later, as a rule. They come when they come.
Yes, the last version (2.0) had a couple of Balkan-type areas (five Powers bordering six dots and four Powers bordering 5 dots, if I remember correctly), but I altered them--lowering the density to facillitate more fluidity of movement. Plenty of conflict remains without them!
The reaon for four dot Powers instead of three dot Powers is simple. Since all of the neutrals are occupied, I wanted to give certain of the Powers the opportunity to get two dots the first year without needing assistance. For the other Powers to get multiple builds in 901, they will either need to immediately attack another Power, or work together form the start.
I am considering a lower victory criterion, but I am unconvinced at this point that one is needed. France, usually not considered an edge Power in this variant, soloed in the last playtest after all, and that was against high quality opposition.
As to no Hungarian Power, both history and board dynamics. They had only moved west into an area bereft of major competitors less than a decade ago, to get out from under the hegemony of the Khazars. They were not quite yet the force they would become. I also did not want another European Power clogging things up, which is why I have never had a Bulgarian Power. Again, less density leading to more fluidity.
I am indeed spreading they word by having playtests in multiple communities. At the moment I have ten or twelve players lined up (depending upon the maybes), so I need three to five more players.[Reply] |
| Unknown - charlesf (Jan 03, 2010, 5:33 am) |
Hi David, the DVW yahoo group is dying as the Diplomacy community has generally shifted away from yahoo groups. I think this site in any case makes for a better home for such discussions.
Regarding your variant, I think the 10th century lends itself well to a Dippie scenario. I myself have considered doing a Diplomacy-Point variant set roughly at the same time, albeit confined to Europe and its periphery.
Must say the powers are awfully far apart and hence the game's going to be quite long. And stabs seen coming earlier than in other variants?
You apparently have made a deliberate effort to avoid Balkan-type battlegrounds that have many adjoining SCs. How come?
In terms of game philosophy we also differ in that I am wary of a 50%+X victory condition for bigger variants. After all, I'm just not a fan of long endgames.
As a fan of more compact variants, I'd have gone with 3 SC powers rather than them having 4.
BTW, how come Hungary isn't a major power? They were very strong at this juncture in time. We Germans sure had our hands full keeping them halfway at bay until the battle of Lechfeld.
Enjoy your upcoming playtest. I've heard good things from some of those who've had first-hand experience with Known World. But why don't you keep it here on DC, so you get some nice stats over time? Or are you trying to tap into another community to spread the word?
Cheers,
Charles[Reply] |
| Known World 901 - david_e_cohen (Dec 26, 2009, 10:06 am) |
The playtest of version 2.0 (DC 229) just concluded in a French solo. I attach 3.0 of the variant, redesigned with aid from, among other sources, the observation and comments on the playtest. Constructive criticism and comments are always welcome.
If there is sufficient interest, I will be running a playtest of the latest version (3.0) early next year, probably on the PlayDiplomacyOnline forum.
[Reply] |
| Unknown (Variants) charlesf Jan 03, 05:33 am |
Hi David, the DVW yahoo group is dying as the Diplomacy community has generally shifted away from yahoo groups. I think this site in any case makes for a better home for such discussions.
Regarding your variant, I think the 10th century lends itself well to a Dippie scenario. I myself have considered doing a Diplomacy-Point variant set roughly at the same time, albeit confined to Europe and its periphery.
Must say the powers are awfully far apart and hence the game's going to be quite long. And stabs seen coming earlier than in other variants?
You apparently have made a deliberate effort to avoid Balkan-type battlegrounds that have many adjoining SCs. How come?
In terms of game philosophy we also differ in that I am wary of a 50%+X victory condition for bigger variants. After all, I'm just not a fan of long endgames.
As a fan of more compact variants, I'd have gone with 3 SC powers rather than them having 4.
BTW, how come Hungary isn't a major power? They were very strong at this juncture in time. We Germans sure had our hands full keeping them halfway at bay until the battle of Lechfeld.
Enjoy your upcoming playtest. I've heard good things from some of those who've had first-hand experience with Known World. But why don't you keep it here on DC, so you get some nice stats over time? Or are you trying to tap into another community to spread the word?
Cheers,
Charles |
| Unknown (Variants) david_e_cohen Jan 03, 02:07 pm |
Hello Charles. In response to your various comments and questions:
Busy goes in cycles, I guess, and is dependent upon the dedication and involvement of those who run things in each group. Yes, people have shifted away from the yahoogroup based forums, but those are not the only ones gone quiet. Redscape is a lot slower than it used to be, for example, and so is judgeland.
Certainly the Powers are further apart, on average, than in Standard and there are no Venice-Trieste adjacencies, but there is a pretty good amount of interaction in the first year anyway, and afterwards, well, the armies and fleets get where they are going fast enough! I don't know that stabs are earlier, or later, as a rule. They come when they come.
Yes, the last version (2.0) had a couple of Balkan-type areas (five Powers bordering six dots and four Powers bordering 5 dots, if I remember correctly), but I altered them--lowering the density to facillitate more fluidity of movement. Plenty of conflict remains without them!
The reaon for four dot Powers instead of three dot Powers is simple. Since all of the neutrals are occupied, I wanted to give certain of the Powers the opportunity to get two dots the first year without needing assistance. For the other Powers to get multiple builds in 901, they will either need to immediately attack another Power, or work together form the start.
I am considering a lower victory criterion, but I am unconvinced at this point that one is needed. France, usually not considered an edge Power in this variant, soloed in the last playtest after all, and that was against high quality opposition.
As to no Hungarian Power, both history and board dynamics. They had only moved west into an area bereft of major competitors less than a decade ago, to get out from under the hegemony of the Khazars. They were not quite yet the force they would become. I also did not want another European Power clogging things up, which is why I have never had a Bulgarian Power. Again, less density leading to more fluidity.
I am indeed spreading they word by having playtests in multiple communities. At the moment I have ten or twelve players lined up (depending upon the maybes), so I need three to five more players. |
| Unknown - AceRimmer (Dec 22, 2009, 1:05 pm) |
Well, it's taken me a little time to get around to it, but I've finally drafted a few soccer-ball globes that could serve as the basis for a variant.
The thing that I'd *really* like some input on is where to place rivers/canals.
Since I cannot upload images to this site, I've set up a Google sites page with a bit more explanation where you can look at what I'm talking about:
http://sites.google.com/site/truncicosa/home
Please share your wisdom![Reply] |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? - lilybeau (Dec 08, 2009, 7:48 pm) |
If a GM gets it going [and they permit me as a newbie to join a second game], I'll sign up.
One question, probably stupid, but here goes --
In Standard version, I set up the board and the old wooden pieces from my game I got YEARS ago...it helps me visualize things better...can one get a board somewhere for Youngstown?[Reply] |
| Dip on a Soccer Ball - charlesf (Dec 07, 2009, 4:55 pm) |
Hm, we Germans got seeded on a rather tough part of that ball. Ghana, Serbia and Australia all adjacent, so to speak.
That being said, some high SC density round that Group H sector: Portugal, Ivory Coast, Brazil... oh my... Triangle of Death.
Can't wait for the greatest sports event around! I'm looking forward to all the public viewing events here in Berlin. 2006 was just too much fun! 
Charles[Reply] |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? - FuzzyLogic (Dec 07, 2009, 8:48 am) |
You can see a chart of all Youngstown games played, here...
http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Youngstown
I believe there is even a nicer Youngstown map out there than the dipwiki one... see the final map for dc154. Sure it will get played! A GM just needs to open it up on the Open Games page. Anyone want to run one?[Reply] |
| Unknown - david_e_cohen (Nov 29, 2009, 5:29 pm) |
| I don't think there is a functional link around to that variant. [Reply] |
| Unknown - ericlgame (Nov 27, 2009, 10:54 pm) |
| could you please post a link to the map of the soccer ball variant cause i cant seem to find it anywhere. thanks. [Reply] |
| Unknown - david_e_cohen (Nov 27, 2009, 8:02 am) |
| Someone actually did a map for this several years ago (it was discussed in the Diplomacy Variant Workshop yahoogroup). It was the modern world, much simplified, but the geometry when reduced was indeed the symmetrical geometry of a soccer ball. A truly elegant idea. [Reply] |
| any progress here? - Kenshi777 (Nov 23, 2009, 11:39 am) |
I'd be interested in seeing how this variant develops. Please also join (and include0 DVWorkshop(at)yahoogroups.com on your posts, as you'll find more than a few folks there that have experience designing variants and can offer useful assistance.
B.[Reply] |
| Dip on a Soccer Ball - AceRimmer (Nov 21, 2009, 9:47 pm) |
With World Cup qualification having just wrapped up, I've had it in the back of my mind to host a game (or a few) using a soccer ball for the map. Obviously it's not a serious variant but rather a whimsical one that may appeal to fans of both the Beautiful Game and the Bastardly Game (Dip). If I had 16 volunteers, I could even set up a playoff Not to mention I have visions of a penalty-kick style tie-breaker format...
With 32 spaces, the soccer ball has inherent qualities for a small, quick variant. And the uber-symmetry means that totally equivalent positions can be designed for 4-, 6-, 8-, 10-, or 12-player games.
I'm thinking the map would have 12 centers. I am also thinking that the pentagons would be sea spaces (though nothing says they have to be).
The good news is that I have the maps half set up already. I could distribute them viewed from the 'north' pole, the 'south' pole, a world wrap-around map, and (my favorite) Google Earth (in which case, the players could manipulate the globe to look at the map as they please).
My problem is that I have no variant design background. And so I'm unsure which map to start with (I have four candidates with different SC locations), how many centers to start each player with, and (perhaps most difficult) how to arrange canals/rivers to connect the sea spaces.
Anybody want to help?
Anybody want to play(-test)?
Adam[Reply] |
| Unknown (Variants) david_e_cohen Nov 27, 08:02 am |
| Someone actually did a map for this several years ago (it was discussed in the Diplomacy Variant Workshop yahoogroup). It was the modern world, much simplified, but the geometry when reduced was indeed the symmetrical geometry of a soccer ball. A truly elegant idea. |
| Unknown (Variants) ericlgame Nov 27, 10:54 pm |
| could you please post a link to the map of the soccer ball variant cause i cant seem to find it anywhere. thanks. |
| Unknown (Variants) david_e_cohen Nov 29, 05:29 pm |
| I don't think there is a functional link around to that variant. |
| Dip on a Soccer Ball (Variants) charlesf Dec 07, 04:55 pm |
Hm, we Germans got seeded on a rather tough part of that ball. Ghana, Serbia and Australia all adjacent, so to speak.
That being said, some high SC density round that Group H sector: Portugal, Ivory Coast, Brazil... oh my... Triangle of Death.
Can't wait for the greatest sports event around! I'm looking forward to all the public viewing events here in Berlin. 2006 was just too much fun!
Charles |
| Unknown (Variants) AceRimmer Dec 22, 01:05 pm |
Well, it's taken me a little time to get around to it, but I've finally drafted a few soccer-ball globes that could serve as the basis for a variant.
The thing that I'd *really* like some input on is where to place rivers/canals.
Since I cannot upload images to this site, I've set up a Google sites page with a bit more explanation where you can look at what I'm talking about:
http://sites.google.com/site/truncicosa/home
Please share your wisdom! |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? - AceRimmer (Nov 21, 2009, 9:33 pm) |
You'll be happy to know that the answers to both your questions can be accessed via the links on the DiplomaticCorp home page.
1) Does Youngstown ever get played here? Yes. Twice to date (DC057 & DC154). You can see those games in the Hall of Games.
2) Are there good color / downloadable maps? Yes. If you follow the Variants link and scroll all the way to the bottom, you can link to the DipWiki for Youngstown. At the top of the DipWiki page, there'll be a boring old black and white map. But further down is a color map.
Returning to the variants page, there is also a link marked 'RP', which allows you to download the RealPolitik files for Youngstown (RealPolitik is a Diplomacy adjudication software which I favor).
Now, for the reeeeeaaaaal question: does anybody fancy a game of Youngstown? I've always been interested but also a little scared off by those off-board boxes. I could be tempted to play (or GM... but I think I'd rather play for a change).
Adam[Reply] |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? - lilybeau (Nov 21, 2009, 6:29 pm) |
I started [and pretty much ended] playing Diplomacy in 8th grade in Manhattan...I went to one of those to-the-left of Montessori type elementary schools where you basically did what you wanted. A bunch of us played Diplomacy EVERY DAY during school.
I sought to branch out and heard about [I may have the name wrong] Chess Club or something on 72nd Street(?). I went and they played Youngstown. I got spanked [I think I was France]. I've never played since and have always wanted to do so.
I tried playing Diplomacy on line in the mid-90s when the internet starting going full force but I could never hook up with a game, so I'm really glad, 35 years later, to be playing again.
This all leads up to...does a Youngstown game ever get going on here? And if it did, are there downloadable maps? I can only find a crude black and white version.
Thanks[Reply] |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) AceRimmer Nov 21, 09:33 pm |
You'll be happy to know that the answers to both your questions can be accessed via the links on the DiplomaticCorp home page.
1) Does Youngstown ever get played here? Yes. Twice to date (DC057 & DC154). You can see those games in the Hall of Games.
2) Are there good color / downloadable maps? Yes. If you follow the Variants link and scroll all the way to the bottom, you can link to the DipWiki for Youngstown. At the top of the DipWiki page, there'll be a boring old black and white map. But further down is a color map.
Returning to the variants page, there is also a link marked 'RP', which allows you to download the RealPolitik files for Youngstown (RealPolitik is a Diplomacy adjudication software which I favor).
Now, for the reeeeeaaaaal question: does anybody fancy a game of Youngstown? I've always been interested but also a little scared off by those off-board boxes. I could be tempted to play (or GM... but I think I'd rather play for a change).
Adam |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) FuzzyLogic Dec 07, 08:48 am |
You can see a chart of all Youngstown games played, here...
http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Youngstown
I believe there is even a nicer Youngstown map out there than the dipwiki one... see the final map for dc154. Sure it will get played! A GM just needs to open it up on the Open Games page. Anyone want to run one? |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) lilybeau Dec 08, 07:48 pm |
If a GM gets it going [and they permit me as a newbie to join a second game], I'll sign up.
One question, probably stupid, but here goes --
In Standard version, I set up the board and the old wooden pieces from my game I got YEARS ago...it helps me visualize things better...can one get a board somewhere for Youngstown? |
| PLEASE SOME GM START A YOUNGSTOWN GAME (Variants) lilybeau Jan 25, 09:20 pm |
| Lets at least see whether anyone but me would sign up...1897 doesn't seem too popular... |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) FuzzyLogic Jan 25, 09:46 pm |
| First we have to find a GM then... anyone want to run a Youngstown? I know there is a nice new map of it, see dc154. Totally cleaned up the ugly look of the original Youngstown and made it quite nice. |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) sgttodd Apr 29, 02:31 pm |
If you don't have anyone else by the time I get home Sunday night (5/1) - I'll run it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Todd
http://mainecav.org/diplomacy
|First we have to find a GM then... anyone want to run a Youngstown? I know there is a nice new map of it, see dc154. Totally cleaned up the ugly look of the original Youngstown and made it quite nice.
_______________________________________________________
Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com
. |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) dknemeyer May 06, 02:24 pm |
| Why is Youngstown such a popular variant? I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be, but it seems to rank up there as one of a handful of variants people talk about a lot and show interest in. Is it the colonial nature of it? The fact it accommodates a lot more players? Or...? Just trying to catch the fever. |
| YOUNGSTOWN ANYONE? (Variants) Kenshi777 May 06, 02:46 pm |
Not one of my favorites by a long shot, and I suspect not really the
most popular as the DipWiki claims either.
On 5/6/10, variants(at)diplomaticcorp.com wrote:
Dknemeyer posted in Variants. The message was...
________________________________
Why is Youngstown such a popular variant? I'm not suggesting it shouldn't
be, but it seems to rank up there as one of a handful of variants people
talk about a lot and show interest in. Is it the colonial nature of it? The
fact it accommodates a lot more players? Or...? Just trying to catch the
fever.
________________________________
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Realpolitik files available here for the Sengoku, Balkans1860, South
American Supremacy, and DarkAges Diplomacy Variants
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| Youngstown Anyone? (Variants) FuzzyLogic May 07, 11:36 am |
Wow.
The Youngstown game is the most popular of the many Diplomacy variants.
That's quite a statement. I'd like to know where the writer of that article came up w that. It's certainly not as popular (2 games) as say Ancient Med (6 games) or Colonial (8 games) in terms of activity here at dc.
The original Youngstown variant was pretty pathetic. The rendering for Realpolitik was choppy, with hard to understand off-board locations. A couple years back tho it was redone, and the new one is actually quite nice. I would say it's really good since the redo.
In my opinion, the desire for it comes from the two most popular games, Standard and Colonial. It simply bridges the gap between the two. |
| Youngstown Anyone? (Variants) Kenshi777 May 07, 01:54 pm |
i should probably shut my mouth right now so as not to be perceived as
arrogant or offensive
but i can't
so...
Youngstown was okay - for its time. The variant design community has
come a long way since then however. The explosion of online groups in
the late 90s caused a sort of rebirth of the Diplomacy hobby, and
dramatically increased the opportunities for variant designers to
collaborate and refine their games.
Even the name Youngstown reflects this trend. The variant was
designed by a Dip community in Ohio that at the time still primarily
played face-to-face. Today, Diplomacy variants are subjected to a
truly global court of public opinion, one that expects much higher
standards of balance and aesthetics out of a variant. And rightly so.
Nothing is more annoying than drawing France in Colonial and knowing
the odds of even scraping out a survival are against you, or trying to
make sense of
Youngstown's off-board regions while looking at the unusual blob that
is supposed to represent Asia.
I have many fond memories of working with Don Hessong to playtest his
early versions of Ancient Med, and working with David Cohen to refine
Sengoku back in 2000. Out of these early partnerships, the DVWorkshop
was born, and though that group has certainly passed its heyday in
favor of gaming community groups like this one, the current group of
successful variant designers still collaborate extensively. Case in
point - Oliver Auth's recent coding of SengokuRev5 and South American
Supremacy for webDiplomacy, and Mario Huys' and Manus Hand's coding of
Sengoku Rev5 for the DPjudge. During those processes, all of them
contributed valuable advice obtained through playtesting.
I don't claim to be the authoritative voice in variant design, or that
mine are the best around. In fact, my favorite variants *aren't* my
own. Those honors go to Ancient Med, with up-and-coming variants like
Known World 901 and WW2-1931 deserving honorable mention. Nor do I
mean to be overly critical of Youngstown - just saying it needs a
facelift, and to be subjected to the same painful process of playtest
and revision that say, Ancient Med (finalized on Version 9) did.
B.
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Realpolitik files available here for the Sengoku, Balkans1860, South
American Supremacy, and DarkAges Diplomacy Variants
On 5/7/10, variants(at)diplomaticcorp.com wrote:
Poobaloo posted in Variants. The message was...
________________________________
Wow.
The Youngstown game is the most popular of the many Diplomacy variants.
That's quite a statement. I'd like to know where the writer of that article
came up w that. It's certainly not as popular (2 games) as say Ancient Med
(6 games) or Colonial (8 games) in terms of activity here at dc.
The original Youngstown variant was pretty pathetic. The rendering for
Realpolitik was choppy, with hard to understand off-board locations. A
couple years back tho it was redone, and the new one is actually quite nice.
I would say it's really good since the redo.
In my opinion, the desire for it comes from the two most popular games,
Standard and Colonial. It simply bridges the gap between the two.
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| Unknown - FRIGATE (Oct 09, 2009, 5:42 pm) |
| Also, I am part Mi'kmaq (1/16th or something) [Reply] |
| au contraire... - Kenshi777 (Oct 09, 2009, 3:13 pm) |
There is a long history of powerful Native American nations all across eastern canada and the NE United States. Many of these formed lasting alliances with the European colonists (if *they* must be included at all
Some will say they were all land based powers, but a significant amount of raids were made along the rivers and the Great Lakes, and to a lesser extent, along the Canadian and NE England coasts. Not every fleet in a dip variant need be a trans-atlantic galleon...
There is a wealth of historical material available at various points in history to make a playable variant here. Consider the Ojibwa (Council of Three Fires), Iroquois Confederacy, Great Sioux Nation, Mi'kmaq, Inuit, and many other Iroquois and Algonquian peoples.[Reply] |
| Unknown - FRIGATE (Oct 05, 2009, 11:25 pm) |
I've seen some great lakes maps, but again with the history thing.
I'm actually hoping that the lack of history will work in my advantage. There are some world maps that split Canada in two, have a "Quebec" that for some reason owns Newfoundland and Toronto. I'd be working within the Maritimes mostly, an pretty uniform area, so arbitrary divisions might actually work. I'm also going to look into the history of native peoples in the area and see if I cannot do something with regards to that.[Reply] |
| Unknown - AceRimmer (Oct 05, 2009, 10:16 am) |
Frigate,
I have, in fact, secretly harbored a desire to create an Atlantic Canadian variant (I honeymooned in Nova Scotia... magnificent!), but I've always figured that I haven't the time or the variant-creating experience to make it happen. I've also contemplated using such a map for Civ Dip... oops, shouldn't have mentioned that
David has some interesting points and some truth to support them. Drawing from amongst Americans (in Maine), Acadians, British, native tribes, and/or the Canadian provinces (Newfoundland, Labrador, Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick, Quebec) you could probably create historical powers... they just wouldn't be compelling to most Dip players. So, the map would probably not become a cult favorite, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to create/play. After all, I'm GM'ing a game of Asian right now, and it doesn't have any real-world basis beyond geography.
So, yeah, I'd enjoy collaborating on this (I think).
Note on the Great Lakes: isn't there a Great Lakes variant in the DipWiki using native tribes? Anybody ever played it? Should I host one?
Adam[Reply] |
| Unknown - FuzzyLogic (Oct 05, 2009, 8:51 am) |
| Along this line I think the Great Lakes area of the US would make a nice map. The waterways are diverse, plenty of peninsulas and isthmuses, plus sufficient land around the edges. Surely there would be some hefty competition between say Chicago, Green Bay, Sault Saint Marie, Toronto, Montreal, Buffalo, Cleveland, etc. Sort of like the Fall of the American Empire map but smaller region centered just on the lakes. [Reply] |
| Unknown - david_e_cohen (Oct 04, 2009, 11:24 am) |
Yes, the area does provide some interesting geography, mirroring Europe to some extent, though on a somewhat different scale. Depending on where you cut things off, eastern Asia certainly has potential. Southeast Asia and Indonesia provide some similar areas, as do, the Caribean and Gulf of Mexico, and the landmasses around the North Pole. Variant designers creating maps featuring other areas have to find ways to compensate, or work around the geographical disadvantages.
But what is also usually necessary is appropriate history to go along with the geography. A lot of people are not interested in fantasy/science fiction type variants. They want to play in a scenario that bears a fair resemblance to actual history. This usually means having multiple Powers, on a relatively equal footing, with additional smaller nations around that will become neutral dots for the Powers to expand into. The problem with eastern Canada and the United States lies in the lack of such history. One or two Powers have always been dominant, and small neutral states haven't existed.
I don't want to discourage you, but rather just point out some things you might want to bear in mind. Good luck with your project.[Reply] |
