Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.

Andrew you'd love that wouldnt you. 
 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here, and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players, and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it, else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival.  It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this.  So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 


From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.
 

You're on.  Propose it, I'll vote for it, as I have done each time its come up - AND proposed in the past more than once.
 
Something you told me early on this game comes to mind - that if Persia and Russia are united and dominate Eurasia, no one will be able to stop them.  I don't think you are wrong - frankly I don't believe that anything I can do can seriously threaten Persia, even if I take every sea center bordering his centers.  Which is not my intent.  I wanted to hit YOU in IND, and that I'm there now only allows me to eliminate your last fleet for kicks without any difficulty. 
 
I'm doing now what I suggested in my press - we give the remaining small powers an incentive to actively propose and vote for draws.  I don't really think any of you is actually hoping to gain much out of killing a draw proposal, or is even actively voting no - abstention is the same as voting no by the current rules.  Even if no one is actually TRYING to kill the draw, just forgetting to vote means the same thing.  So why not put some pressure and provide some incentive to remember?  It worked in DC138, another game where I was accused of setting up to attack and go for a solo, and happily accepted a draw.  I'm not even ruling out someone playing this game with a different goal in mind than achiving the best statistical outcome.  I can see myself cheerfully stirring the pot while I was alive, just for kicks.  Heck, if that IS someone's plan, its working - Ian thinks I'm trying to attack him, and I'm sure Scott is having second thoughts about my intentions. 
 
So I took IND.  So what?  I can't keep it if I want to advance, and it can't go anywhere alone.  And DES?  Sure I could take it, and CON too, and probably JAK as part of the bargain!  Where does it get me?  As I've said before, even if one side or the other OWNS Africa outright, they can't break into the other side's home centers as long as the continental blocs stay true.  As a gesture of good faith, I will take NOTHING of Ian's this turn, even though (I'd thought) we agreed to let me have CON and I can take it at no cost if I so choose.  But I won't, if that helps prove I'm not just after some 'alibi'
 
This game's outcome is determined, unless Scott and I or Hamish and Ian fight.  Which isn't going to happen.  It will end in a 4 way draw.  I want it, and I will absolutely accept a binding public draw vote at any time.  I'll publicly post my orders and my vote each turn, if that helps.
 
Of course, I don't expect that it will.  You'll accuse me of scuttling the draw, or altering my submissions, and so on.  But I'll still do it.  This game is ending one of two ways regardless - everyone believes me and makes sure the small powers can't kill a draw, or they believe you and we spend the next however many months maneuvering into a nice, clear stalemate.  Heck, lets believe the both of us - lets vote publicly.  If it fails, then perhaps its time for a process of elimination.
 
Andrew

 

On 4/27/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:ebfa08b1d0] Andrew you'd love that wouldnt you. 
 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here, and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players, and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it, else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival.  It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this.  So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 


From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.
 

4-way proposal has my FOR-vote. Oceania

2009/4/27 Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
[quote:0988ffc5ce] You're on.  Propose it, I'll vote for it, as I have done each time its come up - AND proposed in the past more than once.
 
Something you told me early on this game comes to mind - that if Persia and Russia are united and dominate Eurasia, no one will be able to stop them.  I don't think you are wrong - frankly I don't believe that anything I can do can seriously threaten Persia, even if I take every sea center bordering his centers.  Which is not my intent.  I wanted to hit YOU in IND, and that I'm there now only allows me to eliminate your last fleet for kicks without any difficulty. 
 
I'm doing now what I suggested in my press - we give the remaining small powers an incentive to actively propose and vote for draws.  I don't really think any of you is actually hoping to gain much out of killing a draw proposal, or is even actively voting no - abstention is the same as voting no by the current rules.  Even if no one is actually TRYING to kill the draw, just forgetting to vote means the same thing.  So why not put some pressure and provide some incentive to remember?  It worked in DC138, another game where I was accused of setting up to attack and go for a solo, and happily accepted a draw.  I'm not even ruling out someone playing this game with a different goal in mind than achiving the best statistical outcome.  I can see myself cheerfully stirring the pot while I was alive, just for kicks.  Heck, if that IS someone's plan, its working - Ian thinks I'm trying to attack him, and I'm sure Scott is having second thoughts about my intentions. 
 
So I took IND.  So what?  I can't keep it if I want to advance, and it can't go anywhere alone.  And DES?  Sure I could take it, and CON too, and probably JAK as part of the bargain!  Where does it get me?  As I've said before, even if one side or the other OWNS Africa outright, they can't break into the other side's home centers as long as the continental blocs stay true.  As a gesture of good faith, I will take NOTHING of Ian's this turn, even though (I'd thought) we agreed to let me have CON and I can take it at no cost if I so choose.  But I won't, if that helps prove I'm not just after some 'alibi'
 
This game's outcome is determined, unless Scott and I or Hamish and Ian fight.  Which isn't going to happen.  It will end in a 4 way draw.  I want it, and I will absolutely accept a binding public draw vote at any time.  I'll publicly post my orders and my vote each turn, if that helps.
 
Of course, I don't expect that it will.  You'll accuse me of scuttling the draw, or altering my submissions, and so on.  But I'll still do it.  This game is ending one of two ways regardless - everyone believes me and makes sure the small powers can't kill a draw, or they believe you and we spend the next however many months maneuvering into a nice, clear stalemate.  Heck, lets believe the both of us - lets vote publicly.  If it fails, then perhaps its time for a process of elimination.
 
Andrew

 

On 4/27/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:0988ffc5ce] Andrew you'd love that wouldnt you. 
 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here, and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players, and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it, else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival.  It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this.  So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 


From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.
 

I propose a 4 way draw between Russia, Persia, Mexico, and South
America.  If it can be voted upon publicly lets do so.  GM - can we
take a vote to allow such a public vote to be binding?
 
South America also votes FOR the draw.  
 
Thanks,
Andrew 

 
On 4/27/09, F Bielschowsky <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com> wrote:
4-way proposal has my FOR-vote.
[quote:5907624147]Oceania

2009/4/27 Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com>

[quote:5907624147]You're on.  Propose it, I'll vote for it, as I have done each time
its come up - AND proposed in the past more than once.
 
Something you told me early on this game comes to mind - that if
Persia and Russia are united and dominate Eurasia, no one will be
able to stop them.  I don't think you are wrong - frankly I don't
believe that anything I can do can seriously threaten Persia, even
if I take every sea center bordering his centers.  Which is not my
intent.  I wanted to hit YOU in IND, and that I'm there now only
allows me to eliminate your last fleet for kicks without any
difficulty. 
 
I'm doing now what I suggested in my press - we give the remaining
small powers an incentive to actively propose and vote for draws.  I
don't really think any of you is actually hoping to gain much out of
killing a draw proposal, or is even actively voting no - abstention
is the same as voting no by the current rules.  Even if no one is
actually TRYING to kill the draw, just forgetting to vote means the
same thing.  So why not put some pressure and provide some incentive
to remember?  It worked in DC138, another game where I was accused
of setting up to attack and go for a solo, and happily accepted a
draw.  I'm not even ruling out someone playing this game with a
different goal in mind than achiving the best statistical outcome. 
I can see myself cheerfully stirring the pot while I was alive, just
for kicks.  Heck, if that IS someone's plan, its working - Ian
thinks I'm trying to attack him, and I'm sure Scott is having second
thoughts about my intentions. 
 
So I took IND.  So what?  I can't keep it if I want to advance, and
it can't go anywhere alone.  And DES?  Sure I could take it, and CON
too, and probably JAK as part of the bargain!  Where does it get
me?  As I've said before, even if one side or the other OWNS Africa
outright, they can't break into the other side's home centers as
long as the continental blocs stay true.  As a gesture of good
faith, I will take NOTHING of Ian's this turn, even though (I'd
thought) we agreed to let me have CON and I can take it at no cost
if I so choose.  But I won't, if that helps prove I'm not just after
some 'alibi'
 
This game's outcome is determined, unless Scott and I or Hamish and
Ian fight.  Which isn't going to happen.  It will end in a 4 way
draw.  I want it, and I will absolutely accept a binding public draw
vote at any time.  I'll publicly post my orders and my vote each
turn, if that helps.
 
Of course, I don't expect that it will.  You'll accuse me of
scuttling the draw, or altering my submissions, and so on.  But I'll
still do it.  This game is ending one of two ways regardless -
everyone believes me and makes sure the small powers can't kill a
draw, or they believe you and we spend the next however many months
maneuvering into a nice, clear stalemate.  Heck, lets believe the
both of us - lets vote publicly.  If it fails, then perhaps its time
for a process of elimination.
 

Andrew

 

On 4/27/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com> wrote: Andrew you'd
love that wouldnt you. 
[quote:5907624147] 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is
drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every
ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote
for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here,
and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you
and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be
a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps
it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player
who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian
Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to
grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players,
and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes
being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it,
else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of
the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in
this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not
lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival. 
It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if
I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with
blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it
doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this. 
So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 

From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond;
Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to
be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want
the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet
Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves
someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the
remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a
draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa
rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is
more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then
I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get
it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with
your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to
get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due
Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.
 

Andrew you'd love that wouldnt you.

It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every ocean. This turn is no exception. Propose it again man, I'll vote for it, like I have every turn. I'm in it for the survival here, and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you and everyone else so wanted to do so. I'm guessing there would be a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me. Perhaps it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans. Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to grow by two! Wait they're the same person...

But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!

I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players, and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes being binding. Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it, else we see who doesn't!

And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival. It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down. Same thing with blue and yellow.

And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this. So let's go w the plan above and see who objects. Yes?
-mike



From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013


Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw? I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well. Its in all our best interests. That leaves someone stirring up trouble. Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013. The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes. But maybe there is more than meets the eye? We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out. But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not. So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.

I agree the game is drawn, and it is indeed a 4-way that unfortunately does not include me, but it's either someone forgetting or not bothering to vote, or it's one of the big 4 that wants to try to cut it down to 3, or try to solo.  Given it's 2 on 2, I doubt that's the case, but I cant say for sure.
 
If even a public vote cannot be "binding" what a public statement of yes vote can do, is prove that nobody is forgetting to vote, since if everyone votes yes in public and it still fails, then we KNOW that someone has deliberately changed their vote to a no.
 
I vote yes to the proposed.
 
-mike
Ethiopia
 


From: Andrew Tanner [mailto:damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 5:53 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Diplomacy Gamemaster; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Scott Hickey; dc190
Subject: Re: DC190 - Spring 2013



You're on.  Propose it, I'll vote for it, as I have done each time its come up - AND proposed in the past more than once.
 
Something you told me early on this game comes to mind - that if Persia and Russia are united and dominate Eurasia, no one will be able to stop them.  I don't think you are wrong - frankly I don't believe that anything I can do can seriously threaten Persia, even if I take every sea center bordering his centers.  Which is not my intent.  I wanted to hit YOU in IND, and that I'm there now only allows me to eliminate your last fleet for kicks without any difficulty. 
 
I'm doing now what I suggested in my press - we give the remaining small powers an incentive to actively propose and vote for draws.  I don't really think any of you is actually hoping to gain much out of killing a draw proposal, or is even actively voting no - abstention is the same as voting no by the current rules.  Even if no one is actually TRYING to kill the draw, just forgetting to vote means the same thing.  So why not put some pressure and provide some incentive to remember?  It worked in DC138, another game where I was accused of setting up to attack and go for a solo, and happily accepted a draw.  I'm not even ruling out someone playing this game with a different goal in mind than achiving the best statistical outcome.  I can see myself cheerfully stirring the pot while I was alive, just for kicks.  Heck, if that IS someone's plan, its working - Ian thinks I'm trying to attack him, and I'm sure Scott is having second thoughts about my intentions. 
 
So I took IND.  So what?  I can't keep it if I want to advance, and it can't go anywhere alone.  And DES?  Sure I could take it, and CON too, and probably JAK as part of the bargain!  Where does it get me?  As I've said before, even if one side or the other OWNS Africa outright, they can't break into the other side's home centers as long as the continental blocs stay true.  As a gesture of good faith, I will take NOTHING of Ian's this turn, even though (I'd thought) we agreed to let me have CON and I can take it at no cost if I so choose.  But I won't, if that helps prove I'm not just after some 'alibi'
 
This game's outcome is determined, unless Scott and I or Hamish and Ian fight.  Which isn't going to happen.  It will end in a 4 way draw.  I want it, and I will absolutely accept a binding public draw vote at any time.  I'll publicly post my orders and my vote each turn, if that helps.
 
Of course, I don't expect that it will.  You'll accuse me of scuttling the draw, or altering my submissions, and so on.  But I'll still do it.  This game is ending one of two ways regardless - everyone believes me and makes sure the small powers can't kill a draw, or they believe you and we spend the next however many months maneuvering into a nice, clear stalemate.  Heck, lets believe the both of us - lets vote publicly.  If it fails, then perhaps its time for a process of elimination.
 
Andrew

 
On 4/27/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:bc4ac7ab9c] Andrew you'd love that wouldnt you. 
 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here, and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players, and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it, else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival.  It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this.  So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 


From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.
 

Well... it's become abundantly clear that the four-way draw is back on
the table for the Fall turn. As per the house rules of DipCorps, a
public proposal of a draw is fine, and we have received that from, it
would seem, both South America and China (Ethiopia). However, I
cannot force anyone to vote publicly. Any player may reserve the
right to vote in private, whatever anyone may think about it. Also, a
public vote is not binding, as the last vote before the deadline is
the one that counts. So, when I get back to my computer on May 9, we
will be able to resolve this proposal.

One other thing: I missed one more move with the map: the Persian
fleet in Zagreb should be in the Tyrrhenian. I'll send that map out
tomorrow (along with Scott's retreat).

mvp

I vote in favour the draw.

Hamish


Diplomacy Gamemaster wrote:
[quote:620899057f]Well... it's become abundantly clear that the four-way draw is back on
the table for the Fall turn.  As per the house rules of DipCorps, a
public proposal of a draw is fine, and we have received that from, it
would seem, both South America and China (Ethiopia).  However, I
cannot force anyone to vote publicly.  Any player may reserve the
right to vote in private, whatever anyone may think about it.  Also, a
public vote is not binding, as the last vote before the deadline is
the one that counts.  So, when I get back to my computer on May 9, we
will be able to resolve this proposal.

One other thing: I missed one more move with the map: the Persian
fleet in Zagreb should be in the Tyrrhenian.  I'll send that map out
tomorrow (along with Scott's retreat).

mvp

I don't know how this happened, but apparently when I wrote that Oceania could retreat to Honolulu, I was looking at the Fijian Sea.  My apologies for any mass confusion and rioting this may have caused.  Here is the (legit) retreat given by Oceania.

Oceania:
F Tongan Sea - Chile

Ownership:
Mexico: Alaska, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ontario, Quebec, Illinois, Boston, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Cuba, Paris, Morocco, Ouagadougou, Sydney, Melbourne (18 sc's - 15 units = 3 builds)
South America: Columbia, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Recife, Dakar, Angola, Pretoria, Maputo, Perth, Auckland, Honolulu (14 sc's - 12 units = 2 builds)
Russia: London, Berlin, Vienna, Oslo, Sweden, Minsk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhniy-Novgorod, Kazakhstan, Vladivostok, Beijing, Korea, Honshu, Taiwan (15 sc's - 14 units = 1 build)
West Africa: Algeria, Libya, Lagos, Congo (4 sc's - 4 units = even)
Persia: Rome, Zagreb, Romania, Ankara, Egypt, Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Pakistan, Delhi, Mumbai, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Nairobi, Dar es Salaam (15 sc's - 13 units = 2 builds)
China: Addis Ababa (1 sc - 1 unit = even)
Oceania: Siam, Jakarta, Manila (3 sc's - 6 units = 3 disbands)

Next Deadline:
I'd like to have your adjustments in place Tuesday, March 24, 2200GMT

South American Riot Stormtroopers (whose acronym is rather unfortunate) withdrawn.  Now they're being pressed into Chilean liberation forces, and training in Bolivia...
 
Also want to say good game to Trout, sorry to help be an agent of your demise but somebody has to draw a line with Persia in africa so we can call a draw!



 
On 3/20/09, Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:7a4f039f5f]I don't know how this happened, but apparently when I wrote that Oceania could retreat to Honolulu, I was looking at the Fijian Sea.  My apologies for any mass confusion and rioting this may have caused.  Here is the (legit) retreat given by Oceania.

Oceania:
F Tongan Sea - Chile

Ownership:
Mexico: Alaska, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ontario, Quebec, Illinois, Boston, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Cuba, Paris, Morocco, Ouagadougou, Sydney, Melbourne (18 sc's - 15 units = 3 builds)
South America: Columbia, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Recife, Dakar, Angola, Pretoria, Maputo, Perth, Auckland, Honolulu (14 sc's - 12 units = 2 builds)
Russia: London, Berlin, Vienna, Oslo, Sweden, Minsk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhniy-Novgorod, Kazakhstan, Vladivostok, Beijing, Korea, Honshu, Taiwan (15 sc's - 14 units = 1 build)
West Africa: Algeria, Libya, Lagos, Congo (4 sc's - 4 units = even)
Persia: Rome, Zagreb, Romania, Ankara, Egypt, Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Pakistan, Delhi, Mumbai, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Nairobi, Dar es Salaam (15 sc's - 13 units = 2 builds)
China: Addis Ababa (1 sc - 1 unit = even)
Oceania: Siam, Jakarta, Manila (3 sc's - 6 units = 3 disbands)

Next Deadline:
I'd like to have your adjustments in place Tuesday, March 24, 2200GMT

According to the Intelligence of Oceania the information on the SARS is highly suspicious and should be regarded with the necessary caution.
 
The Oceanian Press meanwhile run reports of the Oceanian Fleet Commander having started preparations for a ceremony to officially plant the Oceania flag on former South American territory. All countries are welcome to join us for the preparations on this great day and are encouraged to repeat the same everywhere on this continent.
 
Frank
 
2009/3/20 Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
[quote:0e9b2ac8ac] South American Riot Stormtroopers (whose acronym is rather unfortunate) withdrawn.  Now they're being pressed into Chilean liberation forces, and training in Bolivia...
 
Also want to say good game to Trout, sorry to help be an agent of your demise but somebody has to draw a line with Persia in africa so we can call a draw!



 
On 3/20/09, Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:0e9b2ac8ac]I don't know how this happened, but apparently when I wrote that Oceania could retreat to Honolulu, I was looking at the Fijian Sea.  My apologies for any mass confusion and rioting this may have caused.  Here is the (legit) retreat given by Oceania.

Oceania:
F Tongan Sea - Chile

Ownership:
Mexico: Alaska, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ontario, Quebec, Illinois, Boston, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Cuba, Paris, Morocco, Ouagadougou, Sydney, Melbourne (18 sc's - 15 units = 3 builds)
South America: Columbia, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Recife, Dakar, Angola, Pretoria, Maputo, Perth, Auckland, Honolulu (14 sc's - 12 units = 2 builds)
Russia: London, Berlin, Vienna, Oslo, Sweden, Minsk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhniy-Novgorod, Kazakhstan, Vladivostok, Beijing, Korea, Honshu, Taiwan (15 sc's - 14 units = 1 build)
West Africa: Algeria, Libya, Lagos, Congo (4 sc's - 4 units = even)
Persia: Rome, Zagreb, Romania, Ankara, Egypt, Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Pakistan, Delhi, Mumbai, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Nairobi, Dar es Salaam (15 sc's - 13 units = 2 builds)
China: Addis Ababa (1 sc - 1 unit = even)
Oceania: Siam, Jakarta, Manila (3 sc's - 6 units = 3 disbands)

Next Deadline:
I'd like to have your adjustments in place Tuesday, March 24, 2200GMT

South America will happily participate in this ceremony, as the citizens of Chile were found to be rebellious and insolent, and serve as poor examples of the citizenry of our great continent.  We will be happy to allow Chile to fall under the protection of Oceania, and will divert our efforts towards deploying re-education teams to ensure the newly liberated people of Perth fully appreciate the benefits of becoming part of the Portugese-Spanish speaking world. 
 
On a side note, any flag planting ceremonies occuring outside the boundaries of Chile and within South American control will be dealt with.  Violaters will be deported to whatever territory China holds on the slowest boat available.

 

On 3/20/09, F Bielschowsky <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com ([email]bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:614a107bf3] According to the Intelligence of Oceania the information on the SARS is highly suspicious and should be regarded with the necessary caution.
 
The Oceanian Press meanwhile run reports of the Oceanian Fleet Commander having started preparations for a ceremony to officially plant the Oceania flag on former South American territory. All countries are welcome to join us for the preparations on this great day and are encouraged to repeat the same everywhere on this continent.
 
Frank
 
2009/3/20 Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])>
[quote:614a107bf3] South American Riot Stormtroopers (whose acronym is rather unfortunate) withdrawn.  Now they're being pressed into Chilean liberation forces, and training in Bolivia...
 
Also want to say good game to Trout, sorry to help be an agent of your demise but somebody has to draw a line with Persia in africa so we can call a draw!



 
On 3/20/09, Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:614a107bf3]I don't know how this happened, but apparently when I wrote that Oceania could retreat to Honolulu, I was looking at the Fijian Sea.  My apologies for any mass confusion and rioting this may have caused.  Here is the (legit) retreat given by Oceania.

Oceania:
F Tongan Sea - Chile

Ownership:
Mexico: Alaska, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ontario, Quebec, Illinois, Boston, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Cuba, Paris, Morocco, Ouagadougou, Sydney, Melbourne (18 sc's - 15 units = 3 builds)
South America: Columbia, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Recife, Dakar, Angola, Pretoria, Maputo, Perth, Auckland, Honolulu (14 sc's - 12 units = 2 builds)
Russia: London, Berlin, Vienna, Oslo, Sweden, Minsk, Moscow, Murmansk, Nizhniy-Novgorod, Kazakhstan, Vladivostok, Beijing, Korea, Honshu, Taiwan (15 sc's - 14 units = 1 build)
West Africa: Algeria, Libya, Lagos, Congo (4 sc's - 4 units = even)
Persia: Rome, Zagreb, Romania, Ankara, Egypt, Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Pakistan, Delhi, Mumbai, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Nairobi, Dar es Salaam (15 sc's - 13 units = 2 builds)
China: Addis Ababa (1 sc - 1 unit = even)
Oceania: Siam, Jakarta, Manila (3 sc's - 6 units = 3 disbands)

Next Deadline:
I'd like to have your adjustments in place Tuesday, March 24, 2200GMT

Well... the summer came and went and at least one of you was not convinced to end this game.  So we move on.  Well, most of us, that is.  With the greens and yellow moving into his final territories, we say a fond (or not so fond, as may be the case) adieu to the South African Trout.

There is but one retreat necessary and as soon as Frank can get that to me, we'll be able to move on to the Winter adjustments.  And so, on to the moves:

Mexico:
A Paris Supports F Rome
A Iberia - Tunisia
F Tyrrhenian Sea Convoys A Iberia - Tunisia
F Morocco Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Boston - Ouagadougou
F Florida - Virginia
F Bermuda Triangle Supports F Atlantic Ocean
F Quebec Holds
A Boston - Ouagadougou
A Nunavut Supports F Alaska
F Alaska Supports F Pacific Ocean
F Galapagos Sea - Revillagigedo Sea
F Pacific Ocean Supports F Alaska
F Coral Reef - Sydney
F Melbourne Supports F Cocos Sea - Perth

South America:
F Argentina - Tongan Sea
F Auckland Supports F Argentina - Tongan Sea
F Chile - Easter Sea
F Falkland Sea - Cape of Good Hope (*fails*)
F Skeleton Coast - Pretoria
F Pretoria - Maputo
A Zambezi Supports F Pretoria - Maputo
F Cocos Sea - Perth
F Micronesian Sea Supports F Pacific Ocean
F Cape Verde Sea Convoys A Boston - Ouagadougou
F Angola - Windhoek (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal - Jakarta (*fails*)

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F Atlantic Ocean
F English Channel Supports A Paris
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Holland Holds
A Berlin Holds
A Vienna Supports F Rome
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Bering Sea Holds
F Honshu Holds
F East China Sea Supports F Honshu
F Taiwan Holds

West Africa:
A Congo Supports A Nairobi - Dar es Salaam
F Yaounde Supports A Congo
A Algeria Supports A Tombouctou
A Tombouctou Supports A Algeria

South Africa:
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Maputo (*disbanded*)
A Maputo Supports A Dar es Salaam (*disbanded*)
F Windhoek - Angola (*fails*)

Persia:
A Tibet Supports A Hong Kong - Shanghai
A Hong Kong - Shanghai
A Nairobi - Dar es Salaam
A Khartoum Supports A Addis Ababa - Nairobi
F Rome Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Zagreb Supports F Rome
A Addis Ababa - Nairobi
A N'Djamena Supports A Congo
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea (*fails*)
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Nairobi - Dar es Salaam
F Arabian Sea Supports F Somalia - Indian Ocean
A Mumbai Holds
A Baghdad - Galilee

China:
F Somalia - Indian Ocean

Oceania:
F Cape of Good Hope - Falkland Sea (*fails*)
F Tongan Sea Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Falkland Sea (*dislodged*)
F Great Australian Bight - Cocos Sea
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Siam Supports F Jakarta
F Manila - South China Sea

Retreat:
Oceania's F Tongan Sea may retreat to Christchurch, Great Australian Bight, Tasman Sea, Fijian Sea, Honolulu, Chile or OTB

Next Deadline:
Whenever Frank gets it to me, but for clarity's sake let's have it in by Saturday, March 21, 2200GMT.

The impoverished nation of China has voted yes to the proposed draw.  At least those of us who still have polling stations that weren't burned to the ground by the invading Persians did.


From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Thu 3/19/2009 7:52 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Former Trout; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond; Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Still missing some moves




Hey guys... the time has come and gone once again for moves to be submitted... and I'm still waiting on a couple of sets.  Please note, once again, that if the draw gets voted down (by one or more people) I will need orders from everyone because the deadlines are simultaneous.

To tide you over during the delay, here is a bit of press received from your forest green neighbour:

---------------------------------

PRESS: South America - All:  Assuming this draw gets voted down, Here's my argument for ending this game now with the draw proposed.  Clearly there are 4 large powers, two middle powers, and two small powers.  The small powers are likely to be eliminated in the next year, so its in their interest to accept a draw that allows them a survival.  The middle powers are in a position to be made small powers, as Persia is in a strong position versus West Africa (so far a SA ally) and Oceania is going to lose half his centers to Mex and I.  Within a few years we'll pretty much be down to 4 players.

Thing with this is that neither duo seems likely to stab, and the way the oceans are set up on this map and with all the fleets on the board we're likely going to stalemate around ATL, PAC/MIC, IND, and the like.  This will degenerate into my dominating the west coast of Africa, Persia the east.  That'll be about the only movement.  Russia/Persia is secure in Eurasia, Mex and I will be secure in the Americas and Australia.  Africa, even if one side or the other takes it fully, will not tip the balance, as there's only so many spaces available for units.

I think this has been a good (and long!) game that we should call a draw on now.

-----------------------------------------

That's all for now... I'll be back one I've received more orders.