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Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Cat23 1200 List; dc110
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Winter 1869 - Honeybear


- CHINA BUILDS SECOND FLEET FOR DRAGONBOAT RACES
- HOLLAND KICKS OFF SOUTH INDIAN FOOTIE LEAGUE
- HURRICANES CONTINUE TO BATTER BRAZILIAN COASTS - NO ORDERS FORTHCOMING

------------------------------------

Hey folks,

Unfortunately I couldn't find orders from Ted so Brazil waives their build. Armies appear to be the order of the day, although a few fleets do spring up in Anchorage, San Francisco and southern China. Meanwhile, the entire northern Russian fleet falls off the edge of the world.

Please let me know if you spot any errors. Deadline for Spring 1870 orders will be set for Wednesday, March 12th (11:59 PM GMT). Which, of course, means that one or more 'NO' votes for the proposed DIAS were received - we play on!

Cheers all,

Trout

Dip 1264 / DC110 Guns, Germs and Steel
An Imperial Variant Game Game Started: June 13, 2007





Current Turn: Winter 1869

Next Deadline: Spring 1870 Orders
Wednesday, March 12th (11:59 PM GMT)



The Assembly of Nations

Austria: Mike Hoffman
mrh AT panix DOT com Brazil: Ted Morley
Ted DOT Morley AT SEN DOT CA DOT GOV Britain: Steve Lytton
Stevelytton AT hotmail DOT com China: Dave Watson
dipknight AT comcast DOT net Confederate States: Jim Atkins
savwa4 AT comcast DOT net France: Lee Taylor
leewarrentaylor AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk Holland: Rudi van Hal
rvhgames AT xs4all DOT nl Japan: Bret Pollack
bret_pollack AT hotmail DOT com Mexico: Randolph
ruffhaus8 AT aol DOT com Prussia: Shane Whatsit
shanefgtoledo AT yahoo DOT com Russia: Rob Ackerley
rob_ackerley AT yahoo DOT ca Turkey: Jerry Todd
stgttodd AT mainecav DOT org United States: Rupert Alesbury
writetorupert AT gmail DOT com



Humble GM: Former Trout
former DOT trout AT gmail DOT com Game Starting Map: http://www.diplom.org/Online/maps/imperial-small.gif Variant Description: http://www.diplom.org/Online/variants/imperial.html



WINTER 1869 ADJUSTMENTS:
Japan: F ECS disbands Russia: Remove F Orenburg (orn), A Sakhurlin (sak), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Baltic Sea (bal) United States: build FLEET in Anchorage, FLEET in San Francisco [GM NOTE: WAIVE 3RD BUILD] Austria: Build A Crt Brazil: No Build Received [GM NOTE: WAIVE BUILD] Britain: No Adjustments China: BUILDS A SNK, A CHK, F CAN, A DEL France: BUILDS A GIB, A GCS, A NAN Holland: Build A Transvaal (trn), Build A Aden (ade), Build A Bombay (bom), Build A Perth (per)



Unit / Supply Center Breakdown


Japan:
9 Supply Centers - Oki, Kag, Edo, Sap, Fsn, Seo, Crl, Mhl, Poa
1 Army - Seo
8 Fleets - Oki, Edo, Crl, Kse, Wpa, Soj, Yel, Okh


Russia:
15 Supply Centers - Stp, Mos, War, Sev, Grg, Oms, Orn, Irk, Teh, Khv
Bku, Ban, Con, Ang, Sak
13 Armies - Irk, Khv, War, Teh, Kra, Bkh, Ban, Arm, Lvn, Sev, Geo, Yak
Tbr
2 Fleets - Bla, Ang(sc)


United States:
32 Supply Centers - Wdc, Nyo, Det, Sfo, Org, Sea, Neb, Kan, Vic, Alb
Ric, Van, Yuk, Anc, Che, Nme, Que, Nsc, Okl, Atl, Glp, Aus, Nol, Bha, Maz
Sct, Mex, Mer, Cub, Hon, Dub, Haw
6 Armies - Aus, Pan, Gtm, Ala, Hon, Ric
25 Fleets - Kam, Bha, Glp, Pba, Sct, Nat, Che, Haw, Wca, Nol, Wst,
Gop, Net, Nps, Hud, Sar, Cub, Dub, Bse, Npa, Epa, Goc, Ese, Anc, Sfo


Austria:
18 Supply Centers - Vie, Bud, Crt, Ven, Ser, Bav, Sil, Ruh, Cai, Kie,
Rmn, Cre, Gre, Cyp, Sof, Pru, Stu, Ber
15 Armies - Stu, Dar, Twr, Kie, Cai, Ven, Pru, Sof, Fzz, Gal, Bos, Ruh
Bud, Sil, Crt
3 Fleets - Eme, Aeg, Ion


Brazil:
15 Supply Centers - Bra, Oli, Rec, Prg, Brc, Uru, Lpa, Fal, Cyn, Lim
Lim, Bgt, Prm, Vrg, Pan, Hai
4 Armies - Lim, Bgt, Pan, Bra
10 Fleets - Ecs, Fal, Spa, Rec, Qto, Dra, Hai, Coa, Vrg, Uru


Britain
6 Supply Centers - Lon, Edi, Nwy, Grn, Swe, Den
0 Armies -
6 Fleets - Lon, Nth, Grn, Den, Bar, Edi


China:
17 Supply Centers - Wuh, Chk, Snk, Can, Ben, Brm, Yut, Kas, Rng, Del
Tnk, Sha, Pek, Tsh, Hkg, Mnc, Vla
15 Armies - Pek, Tnk, Kas, Kir, Ksg, Vla, Rng, Fuc, Mnc, Hgk, Tsh, Wuh
Snk, Chk, Del
2 Fleets - Sha, Can


France:
25 Supply Centers - Nan, Mrs, Par, Crs, Mnv, Gcs, Sie, Ivc, Pie, Vlc
Vrd, Mrc, Tun, Cmn, Okn, Azo, Gib, Sal, Hol, Sic, Rom, Trp, Fij, Rdj,
Sgr
9 Armies - Sal, Met, Okn, Pie, Par, Rom, Gib, Gcs, Nan
16 Fleets - Trp, Mrc, Vrd, Sgr, Can, Adr, Sic, Rdj, Bcu, Hol, Sat, Hel, Rou,
Mat, Tun, Gog


Holland:
35 Supply Centers - Ctn, Trn, Cey, Sum, Jav, Brn, Rho, Amn, Srw, Ngu
Mal, Ija, Bsw, Sey, Sgp, Mad, Bnk, Mld, Per, Qnl, Nsw, Mds, Cmb, Nze
Cch, Luz, Mnd, Bor, Oma, Ade, Bag, Aby, Sud, For, Krc
11 Armies - Asw, Krc, Cch, Aby, Bag, Cng, Syr, Trn, Ade, Bom, Per
24 Fleets - Ain, Hdr(ec), Mds, Lus, Bnk(wc), Nzl, Rse, Sud, Phi, Pgu,
Eco, Ara, Scs, Phi, Apa, Goo, Ctn, Cor, Ngu, Lus, Izu, Bis, Gos, Jse


PRUSSIA - ELIMINATED 1865


CONFEDERATE STATES - ELIMINATED 1867


MEXICO - ELIMINATED 1868


TURKEY - ELIMINATED 1868



NEXT DEADLINE: SPRING 1870 ORDERS DUE WEDNESDAY, MARCH 12TH (11:59 PM GMT)!!

[Reply]

[Reply]

Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:19 AM
To: dipknight(at)comcast.net; Bret Pollack; Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press



Firstly Bret and Dave

Bret, as Dave pointed out, the taking of your mainland holdings, were a direct result of YOUR CHOICE to not disband the mainland armies. Did I misrepresent at times? Yes. But both China and I were clear in requirement for you to disband your mainland armies. I can dig up the archives and show you and everyone else how our diplomatic efforts progressed and how you didn't start losing centers until you CHOSE to leave your armies in play.

Now regarding the rhetoric and blah blah blah so clearly laid out by Rudi...

The perspective is skewed and we will probably never come to agreement on this issue but if you read my call to arms, it very specifically indicated that peace and trust would have to garnered immediately. I also included in that peace that Russia would have to get over the recent turn of China, the continued pressure from Austria and that other parties would have to manage the same.

Regarding the 40%, it is not so much the overall percentage, but if you break it down into sphere of influence compared to the ability to counter, you see that USA is well on it's way to increasing in number. In fact once over the minor central america hurdle, it will overtake Brazil easily propelling him towards a solo. Who can counter that? Brazil is surely outmatch if the situation remains as it is. If France were to help Brazil, they have an uphill battle that will eventually stall and push back USA. Add to that fray some British pressure and USA may be pushed back slightly quicker. In order for France to turn he needs peace with Austria. In order for England to stay the course he needs Russia to support, not steal, scandinavian centers.

Now Holland - who will oppose him? I have tried none stop since i came into this game to rally the troops against Holland. I believe USA, Brazil, Japan, France and China can testify to that fact. The few powers that could have started making an impact - China, France and Japan - with the exception of Japan had no interest in doing anything to to counter Hollands unchecked growth. Japan stood up to the call though unfortunately, as outlined above, it didn't quite pan out as we had all hoped. I bear some of that responsibility, without question. France What is your excuse? Cooperation between you and Brazil would have had you owning south africa by now. China what is your excuse? Cooperation with me would have you holding all of India by now. The by products of each of those attacks would have provided opportunities for Japan and Brazil in the south pacific, Austria and Russia in the mid east and who knows where those would have lead too?

So my battle cry is not one of trickery, but one to wake up the masses and call for a collective realization that the lesser powers are right now faced with two choices. 1) Set aside ALL differences, band together and start to picking away at Holland and the USA. 2)We each continue on the path we are on right now and effectively hand the game to Holland and the USA, and which ever other lesser power chooses to wear their skirt (France currently sports that).

I, Russia, am willing to set aside past differences, effectively becoming a supporting figure - even to the point of offering my SC's to aid those that will benefit from the additional unit. My NW fleets are at English displosal. I offered China control of the Pacific build ports and will table that offer again. I have offered China support in India and will also table that again. Japan still has 3 SC on mainland Asia, and I see no reason to change that. I will make the effort, the sacrifice and whatever else to make this work.

But I stress the time has to be now and we, the lesser powers, all need to be in agreement. France and Brazil in the south Atlantic can make strides. England and France can make strides in the north Atlantic. Austria and Russia can lock down the mideast. Russia and China can over run India. China, Japan and Brazil can make progress in the Indo islands. China, Russia and Japan can hold back USA in the north and mid pacific. If any one of these areas is not cooperating, the whole operation is pointless.

Together we can pick away at Holland and USA until they crack. Independantly we will, as we have been, lose ground until it is irreversible.

Rob.

----- Original Message ----
From: "dipknight(at)comcast.net" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>
To: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com>; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:23:25 AM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

Bret,
Waitaminnut...don't lump me in with Russia. China also takes pride in the fact that it was always straight with Japan. ???
When you came on the scene Bret, China/Japan was at war...and you continued in that vein.
That was cool...I still said "welcome to the game...and good luck!"

Then finally you asked me when you were losing ground to allow you the mainland holdings to help you fight versus Holland. Don't you remember what happened? I said you had a couple of disbands coming so if you disbanded the mainland armies (which you did not need for a naval war), I would comply.
You did the exact opposite...so I continued to capture Chinas birthrights.

Don't transfer your hatred at Russia onto China.

Russia evil.
China good.

No lead was used in the preparing of this message.
Dave - China


[quote:adaf16d750]-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com>
.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:adaf16d750]Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; dipknight(at)comcast.net; sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; savwa4(at)comcast.net; leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk; mrh(at)panix.com; ruffhaus8(at)aol.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; rBristol(at)cargojet.com; rbristol(at)cogeco.ca; rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl; writetorupert(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr; ee_morley(at)hotmail.com; Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

-----Original Message-----
From: Rudi van Hal [mailto:rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:39 PM
To: 'Former Trout'; 'Cat23 1200 List'; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: 'Bret Pollack'; 'David E Watson'; 'Jerry Todd'; 'Jim Atkins'; 'Lee Taylor'; 'Mike Hoffman'; 'Randolph'; 'Rob Ackerley'; 'Rob Bristol'; 'Rob Bristol'; 'Rudi Van Hal'; 'Rupert Armstrong'; 'Steve Lytton'; 'Suzanne Castagne'; 'Ted Morley'; Morley, Ted
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press



Rhetoric: the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion

Russia calls for a holy crusade against the USA/Dutch world domination. It is no use fighting rhetoric with rhetoric, so let’s focus on the facts instead.
[list=1:b97844fca9] [*:b97844fca9]USA and Holland combine for 60 centers. Even with some gains this year, they will below 40% of the total of 175 centers. World Domination is accomplished these days by controlling less than half the world it seems. [*:b97844fca9]Which powers have a significant border with the USA (a) and Holland (b) and neither (c) [list=1:b97844fca9] [*:b97844fca9]Powers which could fight the USA [/list:b97844fca9][/list:b97844fca9]
<![if !supportLists]> i. <![endif]>Britain (8 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> ii. <![endif]>Brazil (17 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> iii. <![endif]>France (23 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> iv. <![endif]>Japan (11 centers) [list=1:b97844fca9] [list=1:b97844fca9] [*:b97844fca9]Powers which could fight Holland [/list:b97844fca9][/list:b97844fca9]
<![if !supportLists]> i. <![endif]>China (13 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> ii. <![endif]>France (23 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> iii. <![endif]>Japan (11 centers) [list=1:b97844fca9] [list=1:b97844fca9] [*:b97844fca9]Powers with no significant border with either Holland or the USA [/list:b97844fca9][/list:b97844fca9]
<![if !supportLists]> i. <![endif]>Austria (19 centers)
<![if !supportLists]> ii. <![endif]>Russia (20 centers)

So Russia calls upon its neighbours to prevent the USA/Holland World Domination without contributing to it (due to lack of opportunities).
Now let’s look at the powers that can fight the Gruesome Twosome:

Britain:
Britain is already at war with the USA and can’t attack Holland (been there, done that I guess).
Full commitment against the USA would leave Scandinavia vulnerable. Who could benefit from this? ...... Russia!

Brazil:
Brazil is already at war with the USA and has virtually no border with Holland. Not much would change for Brazil

China:
China can turn on Holland but will have to pull units from his northern borders to do so. This would leave his home centers vulnerable. Who could benefit? …… Russia!

France:
France has a significant border with the USA and a smaller one with Holland. In order to follow Russia’s suggestions, France has to commit all its resources to fight the USA and Holland on 2 fronts.
This would put the European centers at risk. Who could benefit from that? ….. Austria

Japan:
Wait a sec, Wasn’t Japan until recently not ALL OUT committed against Holland? What happened? Does anyone recall? I do know that Russia currently holds several centers that were until recently controlled by Japan.

So a summary of facts:
<![if !supportLists]>n <![endif]>Russia calls for an all out fight against powers that control less than 40% of the world.
<![if !supportLists]>n <![endif]>Russia and Austria can’t participate in that fight
<![if !supportLists]>n <![endif]>Russia and Austria are the powers in the position to benefit from this crusade


I’m not calling upon anyone to do anything. I’m just presenting facts and leave it to people to draw their conclusions.

On behalf of His Royal Majesty King William III

Rudi
First Secretary


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 04:56
To: Cat23 1200 List; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Ted Morley
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


Cast this game to the turf. It's over.



Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.



The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.



Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?



I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!



Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.



End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.



USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.



Dave I am coming for you...



Russia.

[Reply]

Firstly Bret and Dave

Bret, as Dave pointed out, the taking of your mainland holdings, were a direct result of YOUR CHOICE to not disband the mainland armies. Did I misrepresent at times? Yes. But both China and I were clear in requirement for you to disband your mainland armies. I can dig up the archives and show you and everyone else how our diplomatic efforts progressed and how you didn't start losing centers until you CHOSE to leave your armies in play.

Now regarding the rhetoric and blah blah blah so clearly laid out by Rudi...

The perspective is skewed and we will probably never come to agreement on this issue but if you read my call to arms, it very specifically indicated that peace and trust would have to garnered immediately. I also included in that peace that Russia would have to get over the recent turn of China, the continued pressure from Austria and that other parties would have to manage the same.

Regarding the 40%, it is not so much the overall percentage, but if you break it down into sphere of influence compared to the ability to counter, you see that USA is well on it's way to increasing in number. In fact once over the minor central america hurdle, it will overtake Brazil easily propelling him towards a solo. Who can counter that? Brazil is surely outmatch if the situation remains as it is. If France were to help Brazil, they have an uphill battle that will eventually stall and push back USA. Add to that fray some British pressure and USA may be pushed back slightly quicker. In order for France to turn he needs peace with Austria. In order for England to stay the course he needs Russia to support, not steal, scandinavian centers.

Now Holland - who will oppose him? I have tried none stop since i came into this game to rally the troops against Holland. I believe USA, Brazil, Japan, France and China can testify to that fact. The few powers that could have started making an impact - China, France and Japan - with the exception of Japan had no interest in doing anything to to counter Hollands unchecked growth. Japan stood up to the call though unfortunately, as outlined above, it didn't quite pan out as we had all hoped. I bear some of that responsibility, without question. France What is your excuse? Cooperation between you and Brazil would have had you owning south africa by now. China what is your excuse? Cooperation with me would have you holding all of India by now. The by products of each of those attacks would have provided opportunities for Japan and Brazil in the south pacific, Austria and Russia in the mid east and who knows where those would have lead too?

So my battle cry is not one of trickery, but one to wake up the masses and call for a collective realization that the lesser powers are right now faced with two choices. 1) Set aside ALL differences, band together and start to picking away at Holland and the USA. 2)We each continue on the path we are on right now and effectively hand the game to Holland and the USA, and which ever other lesser power chooses to wear their skirt (France currently sports that).

I, Russia, am willing to set aside past differences, effectively becoming a supporting figure - even to the point of offering my SC's to aid those that will benefit from the additional unit. My NW fleets are at English displosal. I offered China control of the Pacific build ports and will table that offer again. I have offered China support in India and will also table that again. Japan still has 3 SC on mainland Asia, and I see no reason to change that. I will make the effort, the sacrifice and whatever else to make this work.

But I stress the time has to be now and we, the lesser powers, all need to be in agreement. France and Brazil in the south Atlantic can make strides. England and France can make strides in the north Atlantic. Austria and Russia can lock down the mideast. Russia and China can over run India. China, Japan and Brazil can make progress in the Indo islands. China, Russia and Japan can hold back USA in the north and mid pacific. If any one of these areas is not cooperating, the whole operation is pointless.

Together we can pick away at Holland and USA until they crack. Independantly we will, as we have been, lose ground until it is irreversible.

Rob.

----- Original Message ----
From: "dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>
To: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:23:25 AM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

Bret,
Waitaminnut...don't lump me in with Russia. China also takes pride in the fact that it was always straight with Japan. ???
When you came on the scene Bret, China/Japan was at war...and you continued in that vein.
That was cool...I still said "welcome to the game...and good luck!"

Then finally you asked me when you were losing ground to allow you the mainland holdings to help you fight versus Holland. Don't you remember what happened? I said you had a couple of disbands coming so if you disbanded the mainland armies (which you did not need for a naval war), I would comply.
You did the exact opposite...so I continued to capture Chinas birthrights.

Don't transfer your hatred at Russia onto China.

Russia evil.
China good.

No lead was used in the preparing of this message.
Dave - China


[quote:c800992878]-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:c800992878] Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

Rhetoric: the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion

Russia calls for a holy crusade against the USA/Dutch world domination. It is no use fighting rhetoric with rhetoric, so let's focus on the facts instead.
[list=1:07902d945b] [*:07902d945b]USA and Holland combine for 60 centers. Even with some gains this year, they will below 40% of the total of 175 centers. World Domination is accomplished these days by controlling less than half the world it seems. [*:07902d945b]Which powers have a significant border with the USA (a) and Holland (b) and neither (c) [list=1:07902d945b] [*:07902d945b]Powers which could fight the USA [/list:07902d945b] [/list:07902d945b]
i. Britain (8 centers)
ii. Brazil (17 centers)
iii. France (23 centers)
iv. Japan (11 centers) [list=1:07902d945b] [list=1:07902d945b] [*:07902d945b]Powers which could fight Holland [/list:07902d945b] [/list:07902d945b]
i. China (13 centers)
ii. France (23 centers)
iii. Japan (11 centers) [list=1:07902d945b] [list=1:07902d945b] [*:07902d945b]Powers with no significant border with either Holland or the USA [/list:07902d945b] [/list:07902d945b]
i. Austria (19 centers)
ii. Russia (20 centers)

So Russia calls upon its neighbours to prevent the USA/Holland World Domination without contributing to it (due to lack of opportunities).
Now let's look at the powers that can fight the Gruesome Twosome:

Britain:
Britain is already at war with the USA and can't attack Holland (been there, done that I guess).
Full commitment against the USA would leave Scandinavia vulnerable. Who could benefit from this? ...... Russia!

Brazil:
Brazil is already at war with the USA and has virtually no border with Holland. Not much would change for Brazil

China:
China can turn on Holland but will have to pull units from his northern borders to do so. This would leave his home centers vulnerable. Who could benefit? …… Russia!

France:
France has a significant border with the USA and a smaller one with Holland. In order to follow Russia's suggestions, France has to commit all its resources to fight the USA and Holland on 2 fronts.
This would put the European centers at risk. Who could benefit from that? ….. Austria

Japan:
Wait a sec, Wasn't Japan until recently not ALL OUT committed against Holland? What happened? Does anyone recall? I do know that Russia currently holds several centers that were until recently controlled by Japan.

So a summary of facts:
n Russia calls for an all out fight against powers that control less than 40% of the world.
n Russia and Austria can't participate in that fight
n Russia and Austria are the powers in the position to benefit from this crusade


I'm not calling upon anyone to do anything. I'm just presenting facts and leave it to people to draw their conclusions.

On behalf of His Royal Majesty King William III

Rudi
First Secretary


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 04:56
To: Cat23 1200 List; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Ted Morley
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


Cast this game to the turf. It's over.



Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.



The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.



Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?



I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!



Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.



End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.



USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.



Dave I am coming for you...



Russia.

[Reply]

[Reply]

...said the fox to the hen



Edward Morley
Transportation Consultant
Senate Republican Office of Policy
1020 N Street #248
Sacramento, CA 95814
(916) 651-1773
(916) 324-1022 (fax)

[quote:4a96cb8a29]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Alesbury [mailto:writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:00 PM
To: Stephen Lytton
Cc: Rob Ackerley; Bret Pollack; Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]); David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


I think Bret's comment has cut right to the heart of this matter: all this bluster from Russia is no more than a brazen, self-serving attempt to distract attention from the perilous predicament he finds himself in.

It's clear to see that the Holland/US 2-way draw he's so agitated about is, considering the fact that it would require the surrender of every single one of the 2/3rds of territories that remain in other people's hands, so far from reality that I'm amazed anyone is giving it any credence whatsoever. (Britain neatly exposed the absurdity of it by using all the authority his puny kingdom affords him to vote down the supposedly overwhelming result that Russia had provocatively proposed.)

A multi-player draw following the carving up of Russia's empire is, however, a far more realistic proposition, and that is obviously the cause of his wild concern. Of course Britain and Brazil are happy to go along with it, given the precarious nature of their own positions, but that shouldn't lend any real validity to the premise that is being thrust forward so aggressively and unquestioningly.

I say that the world will be a better place without the evil, repressive regimes of the outdated Russian and British Empires in it (I don't have so much to say about Brazil's South American Empire, but we all know how uppity these Latin types can get when they get their hands on a little power, and the US has got to get its oil from somewhere...), so let the rest of us look past all this overblown rhetoric and unite to form a more enlightened new world order!

Rupert
USA


On 26/02/2008, Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:4a96cb8a29] Britain is IN.

Stephen
aka Deathblade_penguin (Knight of the Lion)
at www.diplomaticcorp.com



[quote:4a96cb8a29] Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:16:36 -0800
From: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
To: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
CC: dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

None of it matters right now. USA and Holland WILL WIN THE GAME IF EVERY LAST ONE OF US REMAINING CANNOT BAND TOGETHER AND COUNTER THEM - PERIOD.

There is no way any of us secondary or lesser powers will grow if we do not band together. That includes me forgiving Austria and China. That includes Japan not turning in the towel. It includes peace and cooperation between England and France. That includes France taking his star spangled skirt and danish halter top off. That includes Austria halting actions against France and Russia. It includes France and Japan start working with Brazil. It means China stops attacking Russia and stops being passive to the Holland incursions. If even one of these things DOES NOT HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY then those of us mentioned above should vote a resounding yes to the proposed USA/Holland Joint Victory.

If WE ALL WANT to stop the super powers, then the time is now - RIGHT NOW. Cast the horse shit, double talk, fear, doubt, distrust, revenge and what ever else aside. Band together and make one global concerted effort to counter them.

Feel free to commit yourself below:

Russia are you? Absolutely.
China are you in?
Austria are you in?
England are you in?
France are you in?
Japan are you in?
Brazil are you in?

It starts with small gains which are still within our collective grasp. But they won't be for much longer.

What shall our DJ/GM instruct the band to play? A battle March? Or the Beagal?

Rob of Russia - Willing to forego revenge for the collective good. Who will stand with me?


----- Original Message ----
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:37:46 PM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:4a96cb8a29]Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Rupert Alesbury [mailto:writetorupert(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:00 PM
To: Stephen Lytton
Cc: Rob Ackerley; Bret Pollack; Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


I think Bret's comment has cut right to the heart of this matter: all this bluster from Russia is no more than a brazen, self-serving attempt to distract attention from the perilous predicament he finds himself in.

It's clear to see that the Holland/US 2-way draw he's so agitated about is, considering the fact that it would require the surrender of every single one of the 2/3rds of territories that remain in other people's hands, so far from reality that I'm amazed anyone is giving it any credence whatsoever. (Britain neatly exposed the absurdity of it by using all the authority his puny kingdom affords him to vote down the supposedly overwhelming result that Russia had provocatively proposed.)

A multi-player draw following the carving up of Russia's empire is, however, a far more realistic proposition, and that is obviously the cause of his wild concern. Of course Britain and Brazil are happy to go along with it, given the precarious nature of their own positions, but that shouldn't lend any real validity to the premise that is being thrust forward so aggressively and unquestioningly.

I say that the world will be a better place without the evil, repressive regimes of the outdated Russian and British Empires in it (I don't have so much to say about Brazil's South American Empire, but we all know how uppity these Latin types can get when they get their hands on a little power, and the US has got to get its oil from somewhere...), so let the rest of us look past all this overblown rhetoric and unite to form a more enlightened new world order!

Rupert
USA


On 26/02/2008, Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote: [quote:27f2465053] Britain is IN.

Stephen
aka Deathblade_penguin (Knight of the Lion)
at www.diplomaticcorp.com



[quote:27f2465053] Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:16:36 -0800
From: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
To: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
CC: dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

None of it matters right now. USA and Holland WILL WIN THE GAME IF EVERY LAST ONE OF US REMAINING CANNOT BAND TOGETHER AND COUNTER THEM - PERIOD.

There is no way any of us secondary or lesser powers will grow if we do not band together. That includes me forgiving Austria and China. That includes Japan not turning in the towel. It includes peace and cooperation between England and France. That includes France taking his star spangled skirt and danish halter top off. That includes Austria halting actions against France and Russia. It includes France and Japan start working with Brazil. It means China stops attacking Russia and stops being passive to the Holland incursions. If even one of these things DOES NOT HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY then those of us mentioned above should vote a resounding yes to the proposed USA/Holland Joint Victory.

If WE ALL WANT to stop the super powers, then the time is now - RIGHT NOW. Cast the horse shit, double talk, fear, doubt, distrust, revenge and what ever else aside. Band together and make one global concerted effort to counter them.

Feel free to commit yourself below:

Russia are you? Absolutely.
China are you in?
Austria are you in?
England are you in?
France are you in?
Japan are you in?
Brazil are you in?

It starts with small gains which are still within our collective grasp. But they won't be for much longer.

What shall our DJ/GM instruct the band to play? A battle March? Or the Beagal?

Rob of Russia - Willing to forego revenge for the collective good. Who will stand with me?


----- Original Message ----
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:37:46 PM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:27f2465053]Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

Britain is IN.

Stephen
aka Deathblade_penguin (Knight of the Lion)
at www.diplomaticcorp.com



[quote:bcad69d370] Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:16:36 -0800
From: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
To: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
CC: dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

None of it matters right now. USA and Holland WILL WIN THE GAME IF EVERY LAST ONE OF US REMAINING CANNOT BAND TOGETHER AND COUNTER THEM - PERIOD.

There is no way any of us secondary or lesser powers will grow if we do not band together. That includes me forgiving Austria and China. That includes Japan not turning in the towel. It includes peace and cooperation between England and France. That includes France taking his star spangled skirt and danish halter top off. That includes Austria halting actions against France and Russia. It includes France and Japan start working with Brazil. It means China stops attacking Russia and stops being passive to the Holland incursions. If even one of these things DOES NOT HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY then those of us mentioned above should vote a resounding yes to the proposed USA/Holland Joint Victory.

If WE ALL WANT to stop the super powers, then the time is now - RIGHT NOW. Cast the horse shit, double talk, fear, doubt, distrust, revenge and what ever else aside. Band together and make one global concerted effort to counter them.

Feel free to commit yourself below:

Russia are you? Absolutely.
China are you in?
Austria are you in?
England are you in?
France are you in?
Japan are you in?
Brazil are you in?

It starts with small gains which are still within our collective grasp. But they won't be for much longer.

What shall our DJ/GM instruct the band to play? A battle March? Or the Beagal?

Rob of Russia - Willing to forego revenge for the collective good. Who will stand with me?


----- Original Message ----
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rbristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:37:46 PM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:bcad69d370]Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:17 AM
To: Bret Pollack; Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


Which came first the chicken or the egg?

None of it matters right now. USA and Holland WILL WIN THE GAME IF EVERY LAST ONE OF US REMAINING CANNOT BAND TOGETHER AND COUNTER THEM - PERIOD.

There is no way any of us secondary or lesser powers will grow if we do not band together. That includes me forgiving Austria and China. That includes Japan not turning in the towel. It includes peace and cooperation between England and France. That includes France taking his star spangled skirt and danish halter top off. That includes Austria halting actions against France and Russia. It includes France and Japan start working with Brazil. It means China stops attacking Russia and stops being passive to the Holland incursions. If even one of these things DOES NOT HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY then those of us mentioned above should vote a resounding yes to the proposed USA/Holland Joint Victory.

If WE ALL WANT to stop the super powers, then the time is now - RIGHT NOW. Cast the horse shit, double talk, fear, doubt, distrust, revenge and what ever else aside. Band together and make one global concerted effort to counter them.

Feel free to commit yourself below:

Russia are you? Absolutely.
China are you in?
Austria are you in?
England are you in?
France are you in?
Japan are you in?
Brazil are you in?

It starts with small gains which are still within our collective grasp. But they won't be for much longer.

What shall our DJ/GM instruct the band to play? A battle March? Or the Beagal?

Rob of Russia - Willing to forego revenge for the collective good. Who will stand with me?


----- Original Message ----
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:37:46 PM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } You made your bed now lie in it. I was content to fight Hollands expansion into the Pacific but you and china could not see your way clear of leaving my mainland holdings alone to allow me some strength for the fight. Brazil and the US then go off ans start their own war with no eye to any other goal. I am simply tired of people blowing smoke and then not sticking into what they say they will do. At least Holland has been fairly straight forward. when He stabbed me, he never continued along a simple line of its for the good of the game or I need to do that!!. You on the other had made simple grab at four centers with out the consideration of any consequences. Deal with it!!

[quote:496abc83e2]Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; dipknight(at)comcast.net; sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; savwa4(at)comcast.net; leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk; mrh(at)panix.com; ruffhaus8(at)aol.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; rBristol(at)cargojet.com; rbristol(at)cogeco.ca; rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl; writetorupert(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr; ee_morley(at)hotmail.com; Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Lytton [mailto:stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:16 AM
To: Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press

and I for one hopes that Russia pays back China for every drop of Britsh blood that was shed.

Actually I echo Russia's comments here.

I allowed myself to be mislead by Holland 3 times (shame on me, I know)... and France once and Usa twice (man am i a sucker or what)

but the time is NOW to stop these maniacs.

Britain has been fighting the USA for years now and whilst France is determine to get to my little island, they are ignoring the bigger threat.

I pledge to fight USA and HOlland.

and if France wont help us, then i say Death to France as well.

let's us form a league to stop them. As one of my absolute favourite Rimmer quotes (from red dwarf) is the Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabiliation in Useful Society.


But i digress.

Comrade, Russia - the British Empire stands with you. Tell us how we may assist.
Stephen
aka Deathblade_penguin (Knight of the Lion)

at www.diplomaticcorp.com


[quote:cf60d7cd73]


Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email]); DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com ([email]bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email]); sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email]); savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email]); leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email]); mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email]); ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email]); rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email]); rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email]); writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email]); ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])
Cast this game to the turf. It's over.



Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.



The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.



Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?



I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!



Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.



End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.



USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.



Dave I am coming for you...



Russia.

[Reply]

Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Lytton [mailto:stevelytton(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:16 AM
To: Former Trout; Cat23 1200 List; dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press



and I for one hopes that Russia pays back China for every drop of Britsh blood that was shed.

Actually I echo Russia's comments here.

I allowed myself to be mislead by Holland 3 times (shame on me, I know)... and France once and Usa twice (man am i a sucker or what)

but the time is NOW to stop these maniacs.

Britain has been fighting the USA for years now and whilst France is determine to get to my little island, they are ignoring the bigger threat.

I pledge to fight USA and HOlland.

and if France wont help us, then i say Death to France as well.

let's us form a league to stop them. As one of my absolute favourite Rimmer quotes (from red dwarf) is the Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabiliation in Useful Society.


But i digress.

Comrade, Russia - the British Empire stands with you. Tell us how we may assist.
Stephen
aka Deathblade_penguin (Knight of the Lion)
at www.diplomaticcorp.com



[quote:5c6896be35] Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:55:37 -0700
From: former.trout(at)gmail.com
To: Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; dipknight(at)comcast.net; sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; savwa4(at)comcast.net; leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk; mrh(at)panix.com; ruffhaus8(at)aol.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; rBristol(at)cargojet.com; rbristol(at)cogeco.ca; rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl; writetorupert(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr; ee_morley(at)hotmail.com; Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov

Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]

Edward Morley<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

-----Original Message-----
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:56 PM
To: Cat23 1200 List; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Bret Pollack; David E Watson; Jerry Todd; Jim Atkins; Lee Taylor; Mike Hoffman; Randolph; Rob Ackerley; Rob Bristol; Rob Bristol; Rudi Van Hal; Rupert Armstrong; Steve Lytton; Suzanne Castagne; Ted Morley; Morley, Ted
Subject: Guns, Germs and steel 1264 / DC110 - Summer 1869 Russian Press


Cast this game to the turf. It's over.

Holland has complete and utter control of the Indian Ocean. Gaining control in Africa and the Mideast. And being given gifts in the south Pacific by Japan. The powers that could prevent his advance have chose instead to bicker and stab amongst themselves turning a blind eye to Hollands unchecked growth.

The USA has exploded recently. He currently has NO significant threat to him. No vulnerable front and it is only a mater of time before he cracks Brazil and England. And he will continue to pick up gains as Japan collapses.

Who will turn and stop them? Who will stop bickering and stabbing and make a global concerted effort to stop them? Anyone? It would take all of the lesser powers - by name: Austria, England, France, China, Russia, Brazil and Japan - just to start to counter their strong holds. Anyone?

I am guilty of the bickering and stabbing myself. But I have given every effort imaginable to join those forces against Holland and USA. No real willing partners. Not even in certain area's where it would seem beneficial. I am tired. Tired of trying to band forces together to fight the super powers. Tired of neighbors, who should be allies, choosing to squabble over scraps while H and U continue to grow UNCHECKED!

Russia is now fully committed to repaying China. Not because of his stab, but because since we started talking, he has continued to turn a blind eye to Holland and disregarding the fact that he COULD make a difference. Every unit I have will now be thrown in that direction. If people, namely Austria choose to gobble up my centers as I redirect them then my point to this press will only be amplified. If France continues to be the patsy to these two powers, then I say hike that skirt up higher and bite the pillow a little harder. Soon they will swallow you up as well.

End this now, so I don't have to watch 7 players watch as their lack of awareness and desire to counter 2 players bites them in the ass.

USA and Holland - well done. Not sure how you got to that point before I joined, but what ever spell you cast over the rest of us deserves my applaud.

Dave I am coming for you...

Russia.

[Reply]