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Diplomaticcorp Discussion Forum:  dc240

(Ambition And Empire - GM: Nick Higgins)


Post:< 11267 >
Subject:< Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers >
Topic:< dc240 >
Category:< Closed Games 
Author:txurce
Posted:Jun 08, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Viewed:1427 times

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I listed Austria first and Britain second, but I had Spain over all the 3-SC powers.  (Not that I'd keep that order now, necessarily.)  Something else that would affect my choices is the fun factor.  I figured Austria was in the middle of things, and thus have a maximum amount of diplomacy.

Jorge

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Warren Ball <warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com ([email]warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

IIRC, there was a game in which I played & Baron GM'd, where a 2-sc player was eliminated in the very 1st year or 2nd year.  With all due respect, that is virtually impossible to do w/a larger power.   It is certainly impossible w/England.
 
England's struggles (and Austria's?) to date are merely due to a small statistical sample size.  And I doubt any player who is as experienced in this variant as Frank, has ever played England. 
 
Does anyone seriously maintain that they would rather have 1 of the 2-sc powers, than England or Austria?

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Jorge Saralegui <jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com ([email]jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:bd4b243d7c]
From: Jorge Saralegui <jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com ([email]jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers
To: "Warren Ball" <warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com ([email]warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 1:17 PM


To jump into this conversation from the extremely objective perspective of little Austria, the performances of the 2-SC powers vs that of the 3-SC powers indicates that the former need no help at all.  If you factor in Britain's lousy performance and Audtria's non-domination in past games, you could say that at this point in its testing, A&E looks as balanced as possible.

Jorge

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Warren Ball <warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:bd4b243d7c] It has been many years since I played the game.  IIRC, there was a "half strength" naval move in it.
 
It seemed to me that perhaps helping out the 2 SC powers might take the route of "half strength" SC's.  That is, 2 specific sc's would both have to be in the countries possession for him to build 1 unit.
 
--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Jeff Hall <hall.jeff(at)gmail.com> wrote:


[quote:bd4b243d7c]
From: Jeff Hall <hall.jeff(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers
To: "Warren Ball" <warren_k_ball(at)yahoo.com>

Cc: nathanbalbright(at)yahoo.com, davidchegould(at)bigpond.com, David.Gould(at)aph.gov.au, kelly058(at)verizon.net, frankmartin(at)surewest.net, mjn82(at)yahoo.com, jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com, smileyrob68(at)gmail.com, MDemagogue(at)gmail.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, congressofvienna1814(at)yahoo.com, jeffreykase(at)yahoo.com, VonPowell(at)aol.com, "Chris Dziedzic" <dipping_chris(at)yahoo.com>, toosauto(at)gmail.com, dc240(at)diplomaticcorp.com, stevelytton(at)hotmail.com, c.p.mcinerney(at)gmail.com, karsten.nitsch(at)gmx.de, former.trout(at)gmail.com, Sturmkraehe(at)comcast.net
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 11:23 AM

I would agree... More than most, this variant (with 10 powers, unknown information of DPs and variable home SCs) requires you to know what your opponent wants. In normal diplomacy, England and Austria can have a perfectly civil relationship without really interacting in a meaningful, tactical way. In this version that is not the case. They interact on day 1. More over, the England player may ask for help from Austria in a way that is detrimental to Austria's interests without even being aware of it thus souring the relationship. (For example, asking for HEW in exchange for helping him into UP may look perfectly reasonable for the brit but may appear to be irrational or a trap to the austrian).

That's one of the things I like about this variant. It seems to be enormously skill testing relative to other variants without mangling the rules.

On a separate note, have the architects reached a decision on a "final" rule for deciding the third home SC for the 2 SC powers? I know there were some discussions being bandied about (possibly making the decision to build the trigger for turning it into a home SC?)



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[/quote:bd4b243d7c]
[/quote:bd4b243d7c]

This message is in reply to post 11245:

Baron, Warren et al,

16 or so games is not a good
statistical sample. This excellent variant of
Baron's hasn't been around long enough to get a good
feel for country strength. 25-30 trials is
a fairly well recognized minimum statistical sample.
I'm sure England will do better by then.


I agree a larger sample would be required before we jump to any definitive conclusions. With the variant having been tested on the DPJudge, we should have more games more quickly. Also, keep in mind, we only have 6 of those games using the current map and rules.

I'm also curious as to 2 other things. (1)
Has the skill level of the various players been about the
same in all trials or have some of the players been
much more experienced in Dip variants than others?


Warren, it's hard to jump to any universal conclusions, but as a general rule, I think those who have played with the variant before, and are comfortable from game start with the map, the armed neutrals and especially the Diplomacy Points, will have a leg up. I'm not sure how familiar these players have been with variants in general when they have joined an A&E game. I'm not sure how we could research or track that. Maybe there is a 'zine article in there?

(2)
Has the same player played the same country more than
once?

(snip)

In answer to Warren's question, there have been two
documented instances of the same player playing the same
Power AND taking that Power to a solo or draw.  As
Chris McInerney mentioned, he played France in back to back
games and earned two draws.  Wayne Baily also played
Turkey to two draws.  If anyone else has played the
same Power more than once, I don't recall them and would
have to do some research to find them.


I can help here with my A&E master excel workbook.
1) Lee Lovejoy has played Austria twice. 050622 &
060815.
2) Chris McInerney played France twice. 060815 & 070621. He drew both times. Baron mentioned this.
3) Karsten Nitsch played Poland & Saxony twice. 060221 & 070621. He drew the second time.
4) Ray Bruce aka Bruce Ray played Russia twice. 040906 & 080213. Ray soloed the second time.
5) I have played Spain twice. 030211 & 060221. I soloed the first time.
6) Wayne Bailey played Sweden twice. 040105 & 060221.
7) Russ Manning has played Sweden twice. 070621 & 080213.
Cool Mike Norton played Turkey twice. 040906 & 060221. Mike soloed the second time.
9) Wayne Bailey played Turkey twice. 001120 & 050622. He drew both times. Baron mentioned this.

There are 23 Messages in this Thread:


Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (dipping_chris at yahoo...) Jun 07, 09:32 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 08, 10:11 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (laxrulz777) Jun 08, 10:23 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (jeffreykase at yahoo.com) Jun 08, 11:01 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (dipping_chris at yahoo...) Jun 08, 11:09 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (martinhaven) Jun 08, 11:20 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (jeffreykase at yahoo.com) Jun 08, 11:22 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (jeffreykase at yahoo.com) Jun 08, 11:25 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 08, 11:36 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (laxrulz777) Jun 08, 12:21 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (txurce) Jun 08, 02:10 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 08, 02:21 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (martinhaven) Jun 08, 03:33 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (txurce) Jun 08, 04:49 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 08, 04:54 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (mjn82) Jun 08, 05:01 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (txurce) Jun 08, 08:55 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (MDemagogue) Jun 08, 11:47 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 09, 10:00 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (txurce) Jun 09, 10:22 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (warren_k_ball@yahoo.com) Jun 09, 11:37 am

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (smileyrob) Jun 09, 08:19 pm

Ambition & Empire 090205 / DC240: Players & Powers (David.Gould at aph.gov.au) Jun 14, 10:25 pm

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