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Diplomaticcorp Discussion Forum:  dc128

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Post:3579 
Subject:< DC 128 Italian EOG 
Topic:< dc128 >
Category:< Closed Games 
Author:test_gm
Posted:Sep 13, 2007 at 12:00 am
Viewed:1596 times

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My perspective is a little different. Keep in mind this is my perspective and I don't expect others to agree with me, but thought I'd offer it up as a counterpoint.

The critical points for the game for me actually came much earlier than Alex is portraying...
1. Taking Sweden - Germany was instrumental in taking this. Probably the first move that gave me an edge over other local players because it promptly allowed me to move into St Petersburg as well.
2. Getting a fleet into the Mid Atlantic Ocean. This was a gamble because it was the first overt move I made against France. This was also probably the most important move of the game for me. I had to carefully threaten France just enough to make him think that I'd go for Brest without being so obvious that he'd realize that losing Brest would pale in importance to me taking the MAO. Brest was only one SC...MAO opened up 2 SC's while denying them to France. I was strongly allied to Germany at this point with the full intention of splitting France up...giving Germany Northern France and me taking Southern. I was able to expand but Germany was hit with both Austria and Italy crippling his ability to expand at the same rate that I was. Because of this it created an imbalance that led to the stab in 4.
3. Italy, Austria, France allied - at this point this alliance was a very serious concern to me. Austria was expanding and seriously threatening my ability to hold the east. Italy's Lepanto against Turkey was also greatly concerning me and I seriously thought we were in big trouble. Germany and I were scrambling to keep his eastern border secure and there was one point where there was a combination of moves that would have completely collapsed the flank and probably led to an Austria victory. Fortunately, Germany was able to retreat to a strong position and we were able to keep his east alive while we set up a way to retake Munich. Losing Munich was probably the defining move for Germany's future at this point
4. Germany retaking Munich - This was the move that opened up the north of Germany for me and led to the stab. I had been edging on wanting to take some of the northern German territories like Denmark, but he was well-fortified. Even if he did collapse the A/F/I was way too strong for me to lose my only ally. There were a few times where I submitted moves that would have stabbed Germany only to pull them out. Usually, I pulled back due to guilt. I felt horrible stabbing Germany when he'd been so helpful for most of the game. When Germany finally re-took Munich and moved his armies more than a move away from the northern territories I saw an opportunity to end the game quick. This was also right after Austria stabbed Italy by taking Naples. If Austria had not done this I probably would not have stabbed Germany. Even with the loss of France Italy and Austria could have done some serious damage to us. Forcing Italy's fleets to come east took the pressure off of me in the Med. and allowed me to get a good hold on Marseilles. Once I did that and pushed Germany out of France the game was pretty much over.

So, I agree that Austria's taking Naples pretty much handed the game to me. If he had not done that I would have handed Paris and Brest over to Germany, per our agreement, and we'd still be submitting turns. Before Naples there were a few times where Italy and France could have worked together to throw me out of the Med, but that never came to pass. There was some obvious dissension between Italy and France that worked to my benefit greatly. I still believe it was my ability to get into the Mid-Atlantic that won the game for me, and at the time the only player that could have prevented that was France.

Again, thanks to all for one of the best Diplomacy games I've played (I'm not saying that because I won). There were several turns where the tension was great. I found myself sitting at work playing out turns in my mind and drawing up several what-ifs. Games that occupy my imagination like that are rare and Diplomacy doesn't always do this either. There was an obvious game fatigue at the end, I think we were ready to move on a turn or two before it ended and that's pretty typical of the games I have played and hard to avoid. My final turn was a complete fizzle. I won, but it was a very sloppy win. I apologize for this...it was due to a power failure from a snow storm (at the end of March!). I ended up having to enter moves using a friend's Blackberry and trying to read the Diplomacy map at diplomaticcorp.com for positions. You guys deserved better than this. My apologies.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Schmidt ([email]wecanworkthisout(at)yahoo.com[/email])
To: Derek eyler ([email]derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com[/email]) ; dc128(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc128(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]) ; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]) ; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]) ; kevinleb94(at)hotmail.com ([email]kevinleb94(at)hotmail.com[/email]) ; Sturmkraehe(at)comcast.net ([email]Sturmkraehe(at)comcast.net[/email]) ; jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]) ; djdutcher(at)visi.com ([email]djdutcher(at)visi.com[/email]) ; Hank_Kingsley(at)hotmail.com ([email]Hank_Kingsley(at)hotmail.com[/email]) ; mircione2001(at)yahoo.com ([email]mircione2001(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: DC 128 Italian EOG


This was my first Diplomaticcorp game and it certainly was an odd one. In the very beginning of the game I was not able to devout as much time to it as I wanted to because of a dip tournament I was in at another site. So Austria and I had an early partnership and I decided to keep France in check the best I knew how. However, that turned out to be a mistake because of the German/English alliance it facilitated and in the end France got run over while I was just getting started in Turkey. I thought my relationship with Austria was good, but I felt that he was too panicked as the game continued. He seemed to feel the game slipping away from him and rather then taking what was given to him, he continued to struggle against the waves. I feel his biggest problem in this game was lack of imagination.

Anyway, as I was finally able to start paying attention to this game, France was eliminated and I had to devise a way to continue pushing into Turkey while turning to face England's advances into the Med. Austria had told me to turn my fleet around and abandon my Turkish position. I did not want to do this for several reasons. The position as I remember it came up during a fall turn and I knew that if I made the right move and gambled a little bit I would be able to take two turkish centers and establish myself permanently in that area while building two new fleets on my home front with which to combat England. This also allowed me to then bring my fleet out of Turkey and act as a reinforcement rather then as a weak front line. Austria was furious about this. I believe it was because he did not want the units protecting Turkey, I believe he wanted the centers, and he wrote me a long mail about me making foolish moves instead of taking the "safe" strategy (again, a lack of imagination). I still think this was a diplomatic ploy because I remember thinking how logical and intuitive my moves were at the time and, low and behold, my moves were a success. It was culiminated, I thought, by allowing the Austrian fleet into Ionion, which would have totally plugged up the med and, had Austria decided to go with my suggestions as I had in the early game with his, I know we would have at least been able to put up a very valiant fight.

But this is where the game turned for me. Austria instead moved Ionion - Naples, which I considered but then rejected because of how selfish and pointless a one center stab looked on paper. But he not only did it, but then sent me an email explaining that he'd return Naples once I complied with his demands. That's right - he was holding Naples hostage for me making a brilliant and effective order simply because it was not his suggested set. This, obviously, infuriated me and, obviously (but not to him) had me turning strongly against him and the rest from that point is history. It is niether effective nor diplomatic to try and win your demands by force, instead it just creates more force and I hope that the Austrian player now understands why the name of this game is "Diplomacy". Quiet frankly the best diplomat deserves to win and immediately after Austria made his Naples demands, England tapped me on the shoulder and made suggested moves that had me not worrying about the English invading force, had me placing "2nd" (although there is only 1 winner) and had me winning my position against Austria. Austria's play was nicely summed up in his last year NMR.

Moral of the story: You will not win this game if you set out only with aims of self glorification. It takes persistence, communion with your gamers, honor and integrity. England had it. Austria did not and in the end I decided to play Austria's game instead of my own and so I could even say I didn't have it.

I do feel responsible for the English position from early on. But Austria is the reason Austria lost.

Hope to meet you all again
Alexander


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DC 128 Italian EOG (test_gm) Sep 13, 12:00 am

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